# Raptor Composite Aircraft

### Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

#### Doggzilla

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Well he keeps slowing making progress and improving the design. So it’s not like he’s completely incapable of admitting fault.

Just try and keep the information accurate. He’s not going to listen to anyone who gives him bad info, even if the point of the info is still valid.

Remember, two wrongs don’t make a right.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Well he keeps slowing making progress and improving the design. So it’s not like he’s completely incapable of admitting fault.
Actually it's quite irrelevant, that's just a time situation, albeit a long time money sink so far, until the point where he achieves a product.

That's one unit. and he's not building just one unit. A point I think is lost on a few. If it was just one plane and a personal objective for himself, I'm sure members of this forum would even be arriving to help him hands on, besides advice, sending him parts etc. we have seen it before here.

But it's more than one, and then the impossible starts, production.

There are members in the forum who know what I mean, people with experience of even small runs of product, and the difficulty levels of achieving that, and how it increases expotentially the more complex the product, and this one is a doosie ...

Just the shear size of the product here, and the ridiculous amount of bespoke parts over the quantities of units he is calling for, simply not going to happen. It's just simply impossible unless someone steps up to the plate with some 50 million or so miniumum dollars, and a high priced Team, and a problem I see, but can't confirm, is the committment on price he has already made to secure $20K deposits from 130 clients. Seriously, would you throw your$20,000 at him without a secured purchase price?

I figure the unit price will have to be a min $300K to make way, it's simple math, I profer that the secured depositors have been told a price somewhere around$180K~$200K, a 50% increase on what was touted originally, just a guess, but seems logical, so those first 3 to 4 years of production will be at a loss ... or lawsuits. Actually the best business move, IF he secured finance and it did get into production, would be to dump those 130 clients, as they are now a liability, return their deposits with interest as to clear a path to sell at the higher, profitable price. Business 101. In fact I saw similar just last week through our Law Firm, though the investors had to take 50 cents in the dollar in that case, or the company would have folded and they would get close to nothing on assets sales. #### FarmBoy ##### Well-Known Member More likely Saturday to get it back together and played with. With the new pump arriving on Monday (7:05 in video) you actually think he won't fire it up and show us its working on Tuesday? I suppose if he followed my email advice and pulled a manifold off and added at least one EGT sensor and a few other suggestions we might have to wait until Saturday. Either way this weeks' updates will be telling one way or the other. #### Venom ##### Well-Known Member Actually it's quite irrelevant, that's just a time situation, albeit a long time money sink so far, until the point where he achieves a product. That's one unit. and he's not building just one unit. A point I think is lost on a few. If it was just one plane and a personal objective for himself, I'm sure members of this forum would even be arriving to help him hands on, besides advice, sending him parts etc. we have seen it before here. But it's more than one, and then the impossible starts, production. There are members in the forum who know what I mean, people with experience of even small runs of product, and the difficulty levels of achieving that, and how it increases expotentially the more complex the product, and this one is a doosie ... Just the shear size of the product here, and the ridiculous amount of bespoke parts over the quantities of units he is calling for, simply not going to happen. It's just simply impossible unless someone steps up to the plate with some 50 million or so miniumum dollars, and a high priced Team, and a problem I see, but can't confirm, is the committment on price he has already made to secure$20K deposits from 130 clients.

Seriously, would you throw your $20,000 at him without a secured purchase price? I figure the unit price will have to be a min$300K to make way, it's simple math, I profer that the secured depositors have been told a price somewhere around $180K~$200K, a 50% increase on what was touted originally, just a guess, but seems logical, so those first 3 to 4 years of production will be at a loss ... or lawsuits.

Actually the best business move, IF he secured finance and it did get into production, would be to dump those 130 clients, as they are now a liability, return their deposits with interest as to clear a path to sell at the higher, profitable price. Business 101. In fact I saw similar just last week through our Law Firm, though the investors had to take 50 cents in the dollar in that case, or the company would have folded and they would get close to nothing on assets sales.

#### flyrite

##### Well-Known Member
You struck the nail on the head!
Presentation is important for this, and my argument (I don't have a side other than to stir the pot, so my daily soaps can continue(Peter posts twice a week, but you guys 5+ a day)) is that the presentations of "expertise" in this thread do not offer that confidence to an outsider.
Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
Peter must’ve offended some of y’all in another life. Regardless of his project, Some here can’t wait to run to the keyboard to tout why they should be listened to!
It reveals more bout some here, than bout the man struggling with his project. Be careful, Don’t hurt yourselfs trying to pat your on back!
You guys remind of a fellow who could piss people of after giving them $20.00 ! #### TarDevil ##### Well-Known Member Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them. Peter must’ve offended some of y’all in another life. Regardless of his project, Some here can’t wait to run to the keyboard to tout why they should be listened to! It reveals more bout some here, than bout the man struggling with his project. Be careful, Don’t hurt yourselfs trying to pat your on back! You guys remind of a fellow who could piss people of after giving them$20.00 !
Yeah, a lot HAS been revealed here. A lot of knowledge. A lot of proven methodology. A lot of experience.

And a lot of concern over possible loss of life, not to mention money invested.

Keep waving that Raptor flag...but it won't fix the issues.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
Nonsense that it doesn't have anything to do with us..

- He is doing damage to the industry I hope to market to next year with my products that I have invested time and money into,

- He is damaging future investment in real projects that might advance aircraft in the future,

- He has taken sales of real similar aircraft available now from real companies with proven product,

- He has taken 2.6 million from people who trust him, and I actually care about that, it's just wrong,

- and he is doing damage to every single person who is involved with aviation now, and in the future, by driving people people away from it - as if it isn't naturally declining on it's own without a further stain to it.

After this is done and dusted, what do you think a good percentage of those 130 people who stepped up to the plate and got burnt are going to do next? Sports Car, Jet Ski, Boat? - but likely not pursue another aircraft.

He's not building one airplane for himself, this is a commercial aviation enterprise with consequences.

#### rbarnes

##### Well-Known Member
I agree. Didn't it take Kirk Hawkins about 8 years and just under $100M investment AFTER the first flight of the Icon A5 to get the first production airplane delivered? The chances of the Raptor being anything other than a "one of a kind airplane" are non existent. ANY form of production is simply not going to happen. And I think I read somewhere it was over$300mil to get the first Cirrus SR 20 certified and in production.

#### Rik-

And I think I read somewhere it was over $300mil to get the first Cirrus SR 20 certified and in production. So your saying Cirrus needs 1.5 Billion in sales just to recoup the certification cost? #### Rik- ##### Well-Known Member - He is doing damage to the industry I hope to market to next year with my products that I have invested time and money into, I can see your point. Everything comes down to the$

Can you take the heat from this site in your quest?

2