Raptor Composite Aircraft

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by Dexacare, Mar 28, 2016.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Oct 14, 2019 #2141

    Doggzilla

    Doggzilla

    Doggzilla

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,901
    Likes Received:
    400
    Location:
    Everywhere USA
    Well he keeps slowing making progress and improving the design. So it’s not like he’s completely incapable of admitting fault.

    Just try and keep the information accurate. He’s not going to listen to anyone who gives him bad info, even if the point of the info is still valid.

    Remember, two wrongs don’t make a right.
     
  2. Oct 14, 2019 #2142

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,343
    Likes Received:
    3,600
    Location:
    Australian
    Actually it's quite irrelevant, that's just a time situation, albeit a long time money sink so far, until the point where he achieves a product.

    That's one unit. and he's not building just one unit. A point I think is lost on a few. If it was just one plane and a personal objective for himself, I'm sure members of this forum would even be arriving to help him hands on, besides advice, sending him parts etc. we have seen it before here.

    But it's more than one, and then the impossible starts, production.

    There are members in the forum who know what I mean, people with experience of even small runs of product, and the difficulty levels of achieving that, and how it increases expotentially the more complex the product, and this one is a doosie ...

    Just the shear size of the product here, and the ridiculous amount of bespoke parts over the quantities of units he is calling for, simply not going to happen. It's just simply impossible unless someone steps up to the plate with some 50 million or so miniumum dollars, and a high priced Team, and a problem I see, but can't confirm, is the committment on price he has already made to secure $20K deposits from 130 clients.

    Seriously, would you throw your $20,000 at him without a secured purchase price?

    I figure the unit price will have to be a min $300K to make way, it's simple math, I profer that the secured depositors have been told a price somewhere around $180K~$200K, a 50% increase on what was touted originally, just a guess, but seems logical, so those first 3 to 4 years of production will be at a loss ... or lawsuits.

    Actually the best business move, IF he secured finance and it did get into production, would be to dump those 130 clients, as they are now a liability, return their deposits with interest as to clear a path to sell at the higher, profitable price. Business 101. In fact I saw similar just last week through our Law Firm, though the investors had to take 50 cents in the dollar in that case, or the company would have folded and they would get close to nothing on assets sales.
     
    BoKu, TarDevil and pictsidhe like this.
  3. Oct 14, 2019 #2143

    FarmBoy

    FarmBoy

    FarmBoy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Gainesville, VA
    With the new pump arriving on Monday (7:05 in video) you actually think he won't fire it up and show us its working on Tuesday? I suppose if he followed my email advice and pulled a manifold off and added at least one EGT sensor and a few other suggestions we might have to wait until Saturday. Either way this weeks' updates will be telling one way or the other.
     
  4. Oct 14, 2019 #2144

    Venom

    Venom

    Venom

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I agree. Didn't it take Kirk Hawkins about 8 years and just under $100M investment AFTER the first flight of the Icon A5 to get the first production airplane delivered? The chances of the Raptor being anything other than a "one of a kind airplane" are non existent. ANY form of production is simply not going to happen.
     
  5. Oct 14, 2019 #2145

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Is a day long enough for him to install it and make changes? Maybe it will drop in, but my luck is rarely that good...

    Since when has Pete followed anyone's advice?

    He is avoiding proper EGT measurement as he at least suspects that it will not align with the bullpoop he has been spouting about it being lower at the ports. He must have noticed that nobody with any technical acumen has agreed with that...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  6. Oct 14, 2019 #2146

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,560
    Likes Received:
    6,331
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    It is easy to persuade people here, at least most. All it takes are science and facts.


    BJC
     
  7. Oct 14, 2019 #2147

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    California
    Even you have to admit that for some on here there's no amount of either than will make a difference in their opinion.

    This is why he's driven to go forward, hell or high water, and prove it will fly. He's apparently from Missouri, the show me state.
     
  8. Oct 14, 2019 #2148

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    3,246
    Location:
    Mojave, Ca
    He has certainly painted himself into a corner, yes.

    Which is why some of us see the inevitable conclusion so clearly. The "accident chain" is unfolding right before our eyes.
     
    flyboy2160 likes this.
  9. Oct 14, 2019 #2149

    narfi

    narfi

    narfi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    Alaska
    30 seconds or less of listening to his videos would say otherwise.
     
  10. Oct 14, 2019 #2150

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,343
    Likes Received:
    3,600
    Location:
    Australian
    He's Australian, but the way he rolls his 'R'rrrs, his been in the USA for some decades.


    I used to have a laser temp gun, very fast way to see which cylinder isn't running so well, i.e. the cold one.

    The temp drop over that distance of pipe is about 10%, in other words, substantially different (lower).

    Probably not a bad tool for plane owners to have, not exactly expensive either ...

    https://www.amazon.com/laser-temperature-gun/s?k=laser+temperature+gun
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  11. Oct 14, 2019 #2151

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I've found that proving something with science requires the other person to understand that science. Failing that, they need to believe that I do.
    Often, they won't even look at my proof, however much I simplify and explain it.
     
  12. Oct 14, 2019 #2152

    narfi

    narfi

    narfi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    Alaska
    You struck the nail on the head!
    Presentation is important for this, and my argument (I don't have a side other than to stir the pot, so my daily soaps can continue(Peter posts twice a week, but you guys 5+ a day)) is that the presentations of "expertise" in this thread do not offer that confidence to an outsider.
     
  13. Oct 14, 2019 #2153

    TarDevil

    TarDevil

    TarDevil

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    169
    Location:
    Coastal North Carolina/USA
    Nothing new. There are exceptions in any demographic.

    But you can't expect minds to change when experience, math and physics are being defied.

    He's had an abundance of sound advice from this group.
     
  14. Oct 14, 2019 #2154

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Location:
    North Carolina
    My presentation sucks. I've pretty much given up on the long detailed explanations.
    Peter's presentation of bullpoop however, is worth north of $5,000,000. Science is a poor argument for the common consumer...
     
  15. Oct 14, 2019 #2155

    flyrite

    flyrite

    flyrite

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    lyons, ga. in the usa
    Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
    Peter must’ve offended some of y’all in another life. Regardless of his project, Some here can’t wait to run to the keyboard to tout why they should be listened to!
    It reveals more bout some here, than bout the man struggling with his project. Be careful, Don’t hurt yourselfs trying to pat your on back!
    You guys remind of a fellow who could piss people of after giving them $20.00 !
     
    Rik- likes this.
  16. Oct 14, 2019 #2156

    TarDevil

    TarDevil

    TarDevil

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    169
    Location:
    Coastal North Carolina/USA
    Yeah, a lot HAS been revealed here. A lot of knowledge. A lot of proven methodology. A lot of experience.

    And a lot of concern over possible loss of life, not to mention money invested.

    Keep waving that Raptor flag...but it won't fix the issues.
     
  17. Oct 14, 2019 #2157

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,343
    Likes Received:
    3,600
    Location:
    Australian
    Nonsense that it doesn't have anything to do with us..

    - He is doing damage to the industry I hope to market to next year with my products that I have invested time and money into,

    - He is damaging future investment in real projects that might advance aircraft in the future,

    - He has taken sales of real similar aircraft available now from real companies with proven product,

    - He has taken 2.6 million from people who trust him, and I actually care about that, it's just wrong,

    - and he is doing damage to every single person who is involved with aviation now, and in the future, by driving people people away from it - as if it isn't naturally declining on it's own without a further stain to it.

    After this is done and dusted, what do you think a good percentage of those 130 people who stepped up to the plate and got burnt are going to do next? Sports Car, Jet Ski, Boat? - but likely not pursue another aircraft.

    He's not building one airplane for himself, this is a commercial aviation enterprise with consequences.
     
  18. Oct 14, 2019 #2158

    rbarnes

    rbarnes

    rbarnes

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Texas
    And I think I read somewhere it was over $300mil to get the first Cirrus SR 20 certified and in production.
     
  19. Oct 14, 2019 #2159

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    California
    So your saying Cirrus needs 1.5 Billion in sales just to recoup the certification cost?
     
  20. Oct 14, 2019 #2160

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Rik-

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    California
    I can see your point. Everything comes down to the $$$

    Can you take the heat from this site in your quest?
     
    cheapracer likes this.

Share This Page



arrow_white