Raptor Composite Aircraft

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Doggzilla

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Well he keeps slowing making progress and improving the design. So it’s not like he’s completely incapable of admitting fault.

Just try and keep the information accurate. He’s not going to listen to anyone who gives him bad info, even if the point of the info is still valid.

Remember, two wrongs don’t make a right.
 

cheapracer

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Well he keeps slowing making progress and improving the design. So it’s not like he’s completely incapable of admitting fault.
Actually it's quite irrelevant, that's just a time situation, albeit a long time money sink so far, until the point where he achieves a product.

That's one unit. and he's not building just one unit. A point I think is lost on a few. If it was just one plane and a personal objective for himself, I'm sure members of this forum would even be arriving to help him hands on, besides advice, sending him parts etc. we have seen it before here.

But it's more than one, and then the impossible starts, production.

There are members in the forum who know what I mean, people with experience of even small runs of product, and the difficulty levels of achieving that, and how it increases expotentially the more complex the product, and this one is a doosie ...

Just the shear size of the product here, and the ridiculous amount of bespoke parts over the quantities of units he is calling for, simply not going to happen. It's just simply impossible unless someone steps up to the plate with some 50 million or so miniumum dollars, and a high priced Team, and a problem I see, but can't confirm, is the committment on price he has already made to secure $20K deposits from 130 clients.

Seriously, would you throw your $20,000 at him without a secured purchase price?

I figure the unit price will have to be a min $300K to make way, it's simple math, I profer that the secured depositors have been told a price somewhere around $180K~$200K, a 50% increase on what was touted originally, just a guess, but seems logical, so those first 3 to 4 years of production will be at a loss ... or lawsuits.

Actually the best business move, IF he secured finance and it did get into production, would be to dump those 130 clients, as they are now a liability, return their deposits with interest as to clear a path to sell at the higher, profitable price. Business 101. In fact I saw similar just last week through our Law Firm, though the investors had to take 50 cents in the dollar in that case, or the company would have folded and they would get close to nothing on assets sales.
 

FarmBoy

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More likely Saturday to get it back together and played with.
With the new pump arriving on Monday (7:05 in video) you actually think he won't fire it up and show us its working on Tuesday? I suppose if he followed my email advice and pulled a manifold off and added at least one EGT sensor and a few other suggestions we might have to wait until Saturday. Either way this weeks' updates will be telling one way or the other.
 

Venom

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Actually it's quite irrelevant, that's just a time situation, albeit a long time money sink so far, until the point where he achieves a product.

That's one unit. and he's not building just one unit. A point I think is lost on a few. If it was just one plane and a personal objective for himself, I'm sure members of this forum would even be arriving to help him hands on, besides advice, sending him parts etc. we have seen it before here.

But it's more than one, and then the impossible starts, production.

There are members in the forum who know what I mean, people with experience of even small runs of product, and the difficulty levels of achieving that, and how it increases expotentially the more complex the product, and this one is a doosie ...

Just the shear size of the product here, and the ridiculous amount of bespoke parts over the quantities of units he is calling for, simply not going to happen. It's just simply impossible unless someone steps up to the plate with some 50 million or so miniumum dollars, and a high priced Team, and a problem I see, but can't confirm, is the committment on price he has already made to secure $20K deposits from 130 clients.

Seriously, would you throw your $20,000 at him without a secured purchase price?

I figure the unit price will have to be a min $300K to make way, it's simple math, I profer that the secured depositors have been told a price somewhere around $180K~$200K, a 50% increase on what was touted originally, just a guess, but seems logical, so those first 3 to 4 years of production will be at a loss ... or lawsuits.

Actually the best business move, IF he secured finance and it did get into production, would be to dump those 130 clients, as they are now a liability, return their deposits with interest as to clear a path to sell at the higher, profitable price. Business 101. In fact I saw similar just last week through our Law Firm, though the investors had to take 50 cents in the dollar in that case, or the company would have folded and they would get close to nothing on assets sales.
I agree. Didn't it take Kirk Hawkins about 8 years and just under $100M investment AFTER the first flight of the Icon A5 to get the first production airplane delivered? The chances of the Raptor being anything other than a "one of a kind airplane" are non existent. ANY form of production is simply not going to happen.
 

pictsidhe

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With the new pump arriving on Monday (7:05 in video) you actually think he won't fire it up and show us its working on Tuesday? I suppose if he followed my email advice and pulled a manifold off and added at least one EGT sensor and a few other suggestions we might have to wait until Saturday. Either way this weeks' updates will be telling one way or the other.
Is a day long enough for him to install it and make changes? Maybe it will drop in, but my luck is rarely that good...

Since when has Pete followed anyone's advice?

He is avoiding proper EGT measurement as he at least suspects that it will not align with the bullpoop he has been spouting about it being lower at the ports. He must have noticed that nobody with any technical acumen has agreed with that...
 
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Rik-

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It is easy to persuade people here, at least most. All it takes are science and facts.


BJC
Even you have to admit that for some on here there's no amount of either than will make a difference in their opinion.

This is why he's driven to go forward, hell or high water, and prove it will fly. He's apparently from Missouri, the show me state.
 

Toobuilder

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He has certainly painted himself into a corner, yes.

Which is why some of us see the inevitable conclusion so clearly. The "accident chain" is unfolding right before our eyes.
 

cheapracer

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30 seconds or less of listening to his videos would say otherwise.
He's Australian, but the way he rolls his 'R'rrrs, his been in the USA for some decades.


He is avoiding proper EGT measurement as he at least suspects that it will not align with the bullpoop he has been spouting about it being lower at the ports. He must have noticed that nobody with any technical acumen has agreed with that...
I used to have a laser temp gun, very fast way to see which cylinder isn't running so well, i.e. the cold one.

The temp drop over that distance of pipe is about 10%, in other words, substantially different (lower).

Probably not a bad tool for plane owners to have, not exactly expensive either ...

https://www.amazon.com/laser-temperature-gun/s?k=laser+temperature+gun
 
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pictsidhe

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It is easy to persuade people here, at least most. All it takes are science and facts.


BJC
I've found that proving something with science requires the other person to understand that science. Failing that, they need to believe that I do.
Often, they won't even look at my proof, however much I simplify and explain it.
 

narfi

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they need to believe that I do.
You struck the nail on the head!
Presentation is important for this, and my argument (I don't have a side other than to stir the pot, so my daily soaps can continue(Peter posts twice a week, but you guys 5+ a day)) is that the presentations of "expertise" in this thread do not offer that confidence to an outsider.
 

TarDevil

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Even you have to admit that for some on here there's no amount of either than will make a difference in their opinion.
Nothing new. There are exceptions in any demographic.

But you can't expect minds to change when experience, math and physics are being defied.

He's had an abundance of sound advice from this group.
 

pictsidhe

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You struck the nail on the head!
Presentation is important for this, and my argument (I don't have a side other than to stir the pot, so my daily soaps can continue(Peter posts twice a week, but you guys 5+ a day)) is that the presentations of "expertise" in this thread do not offer that confidence to an outsider.
My presentation sucks. I've pretty much given up on the long detailed explanations.
Peter's presentation of bullpoop however, is worth north of $5,000,000. Science is a poor argument for the common consumer...
 

flyrite

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You struck the nail on the head!
Presentation is important for this, and my argument (I don't have a side other than to stir the pot, so my daily soaps can continue(Peter posts twice a week, but you guys 5+ a day)) is that the presentations of "expertise" in this thread do not offer that confidence to an outsider.
Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
Peter must’ve offended some of y’all in another life. Regardless of his project, Some here can’t wait to run to the keyboard to tout why they should be listened to!
It reveals more bout some here, than bout the man struggling with his project. Be careful, Don’t hurt yourselfs trying to pat your on back!
You guys remind of a fellow who could piss people of after giving them $20.00 !
 

TarDevil

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Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
Peter must’ve offended some of y’all in another life. Regardless of his project, Some here can’t wait to run to the keyboard to tout why they should be listened to!
It reveals more bout some here, than bout the man struggling with his project. Be careful, Don’t hurt yourselfs trying to pat your on back!
You guys remind of a fellow who could piss people of after giving them $20.00 !
Yeah, a lot HAS been revealed here. A lot of knowledge. A lot of proven methodology. A lot of experience.

And a lot of concern over possible loss of life, not to mention money invested.

Keep waving that Raptor flag...but it won't fix the issues.
 

cheapracer

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Never seen so many people so vested in something that really doesn’t have anything to do with them.
Nonsense that it doesn't have anything to do with us..

- He is doing damage to the industry I hope to market to next year with my products that I have invested time and money into,

- He is damaging future investment in real projects that might advance aircraft in the future,

- He has taken sales of real similar aircraft available now from real companies with proven product,

- He has taken 2.6 million from people who trust him, and I actually care about that, it's just wrong,

- and he is doing damage to every single person who is involved with aviation now, and in the future, by driving people people away from it - as if it isn't naturally declining on it's own without a further stain to it.

After this is done and dusted, what do you think a good percentage of those 130 people who stepped up to the plate and got burnt are going to do next? Sports Car, Jet Ski, Boat? - but likely not pursue another aircraft.

He's not building one airplane for himself, this is a commercial aviation enterprise with consequences.
 

rbarnes

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I agree. Didn't it take Kirk Hawkins about 8 years and just under $100M investment AFTER the first flight of the Icon A5 to get the first production airplane delivered? The chances of the Raptor being anything other than a "one of a kind airplane" are non existent. ANY form of production is simply not going to happen.
And I think I read somewhere it was over $300mil to get the first Cirrus SR 20 certified and in production.
 
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