# Raptor Composite Aircraft

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#### Rik-

##### Well-Known Member
There is far more to aircraft design than shape or planform. With misapplication of systems integration and structure, one could create a visual clone of a 172 but end up with an evil handling, structurally questionable and poor performing mess.

In airplanes, the details count.
And there are a lot of 172 looking planes, Texas Aircraft, jabiru, Tecnam and others. I see your point as there’s only so many ways to make a certain design.

Question is why was velocity successful and (from the outside) why was the commuter craft was successful too. (Are they out if business now?)

I can’t see a problem with the raptor flying, given enough airspeed that will happen. How much roll control will three be with the ailerons flopping up/down without feedback in the control stick is an obvious concern. Possibly they will need a sparrow strainer?

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Velocity was designed to be a canard airplane. Raptor designed to be an air conditioned cup holder and glove box in the shape of a canard airplane.
i'm literally crying with laughter with that one!

#### Kyle Boatright

##### Well-Known Member
Velocity
Commuter Craft
Raptor

There might be others that I am unaware of, but from an ignorant perspective these look a lot alike.
CommuterCraft was a 3 surface design. Very different than the canards.

#### Rik-

##### Well-Known Member
CommuterCraft was a 3 surface design. Very different than the canards.
3 surfaces being, Conrad, main wing and the elevator on the upper rear?

Looks like they are out of business now?

#### DaveK

##### Well-Known Member
“Edit: There is a difference in having an engineering degree, and being an engineer.”

Never a truer thing said.

#### Kyle Boatright

##### Well-Known Member
3 surfaces being, Conrad, main wing and the elevator on the upper rear?

Looks like they are out of business now?
Canard, main wing, horizontal stabilizer.

Yes, they are out of business. After their first prototype flew for a while, they substantially reworked the design. The test pilot who made the first flight of V2 didn't like it at all. The owner made modifications, then tried the second flight himself. That ended up being a 3 minute flight with a fatal crash at the end.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Canard, main wing, horizontal stabilizer.

Yes, they are out of business. After their first prototype flew for a while, they substantially reworked the design. The test pilot who made the first flight of V2 didn't like it at all. The owner made modifications, then tried the second flight himself. That ended up being a 3 minute flight with a fatal crash at the end.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees potentially the same path for Raptor, and as much as I have contempt for the project, I am sincere to say I hope he is smarter than that, and leaves it to the experts to deal with getting it sorted.

#### daveklingler

##### Well-Known Member
I'm shocked you tie your own shoelaces, I would think the task was beneath you.
It is, generally, given where my shoelaces reside. But it's probably that way for anybody who has shoelaces.

PS: I have managed to design and construct 80% of an aircraft myself without taking $5 from anyone, I think that's excellent, and I applaud your efforts. I won't say, "80% to go!" I won't. Not out loud. let alone$5 million for a white elephant, of which about \$3 million is unrecoverable at this point in time, so you stand upon your plinth condescendingly judging others as much as you want, it doesn't change the ultimate outcome of this project which is to put a lot of innocent people out of pocket, and put another dent in the kit industry, and damages my chances, and other's, of success in the industry.
I'm not at all sure the world cares that much if someone's revolutionary airplane endeavor fails, given that so many of them fail every year. The BD-5's problems only led to an ultimately successful kitplane industry, but there have been many failed kitplanes since then. And successes.

Regardless, if I were that concerned, I would strike up a relationship with the designer and ask how I could help. That's a constructive alternative.

Given that you're the one doing the attacking, your plinth ith muth thaller than my plinth. Juth thayin'. My plinth ith barely a nubbin.

I'm going to go cuth outh my new hotwire themplateth.

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#### Rik-

##### Well-Known Member

I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees potentially the same path for Raptor, and as much as I have contempt for the project, I am sincere to say I hope he is smarter than that, and leaves it to the experts to deal with getting it sorted.
This is why I brought them up.. there seems to be a pattern developing

#### flyboy2160

##### Well-Known Member
... The BD-5's problems only led to ...
Please, spare us. The BD 5 led to bankruptcy and to buyers losing money. Rutan and Vans were much more important to 'an ultimately successful kitplane industry' than the wishin' and hopin' BD5.

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
Regardless, if I were that concerned, I would strike up a relationship with the designer and ask how I could help. That's a constructive alternative.
Ok, is it a problem with our wording, or do the Rapter fanboys merely ignore the oft repeated fact that help has been offered by knowledgeable, experienced, successful and well meaning folks, both from this forum and from other sectors of the aviation industry, yet ignored and dismissed readily by Peter?

Nope. Wording is fine. Must be the later.

#### Venom

##### Well-Known Member
.......your plinth ith muth thaller than my plinth. Juth thayin'. My plinth ith barely a nubbin.

I'm going to go cuth outh my new hotwireg......
I believe that the following were your words... ":That fact is reflected in the extremely low signal-to-noise ratio. Nothing like watching a bunch of critics circle-j*@#ing"

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
This thread seems to be a fanboy troll magnet. Dagnamit, my naughty list is getting huge. I'll be sending out a lot of coal this year.

#### Rik-

##### Well-Known Member
This thread seems to be a fanboy troll magnet. Dagnamit, my naughty list is getting huge. I'll be sending out a lot of coal this year.
relax. This thread has its share of haters as well as deniers.

#### Rik-

##### Well-Known Member
Ok, is it a problem with our wording, or do the Rapter fanboys merely ignore the oft repeated fact that help has been offered by knowledgeable, experienced, successful and well meaning folks, both from this forum and from other sectors of the aviation industry, yet ignored and dismissed readily by Peter?

Nope. Wording is fine. Must be the later.
It might be presumptuous to think he reads this forum, if he did it’s best he remains silent as he can’t win nor persuade anyone here.

how do we know, mind you I haven’t watched all of his boring videos, that anybody with anything to offer good/bad has consulted with this guy?

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
It might be presumptuous to think he reads this forum, if he did it’s best he remains silent as he can’t win nor persuade anyone here.

how do we know, mind you I haven’t watched all of his boring videos, that anybody with anything to offer good/bad has consulted with this guy?
Folks here... qualified folks... have addressed Peter directly in various ways separate from this forum.

#### FarmBoy

##### Well-Known Member
In Our Latest Episode: He now thinks his tank/boost pump needs to put out a lot more pressure to feed the high pressure rail feed pump.
Actually the low pressure boost pump in Audi 3.0 TDI feeds around 65psi to the HP pump. So he actually did need either a third LP boost pump or a higher pressure supply pump. That said, if he plumbs it right without any other mods or EGT limits it could be an exciting Tuesday video.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Folks here... qualified folks... have addressed Peter directly in various ways separate from this forum.
He basicaly told them all: "Thanks, but I'm smarter than you are."

With that attitude and the numerous serious design errors that keep coming to light, is it really any wonder that we seem to be dog-piling him in here?

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Actually the low pressure boost pump in Audi 3.0 TDI feeds around 65psi to the HP pump. So he actually did need either a third LP boost pump or a higher pressure supply pump. That said, if he plumbs it right without any other mods or EGT limits it could be an exciting Tuesday video.
More likely Saturday to get it back together and played with.

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