Prop design software/books

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rv7charlie

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Warnke wasn't an 'oddball'. A better way of thinking of him is this: Craig Catto is our 'modern times' faint shadow of Bernie Warnke.

His 72x72 'almost constant speed' prop on my RV-4 was the best prop I've ever owned. I still have what's left of it, after my RV partner stuck a blade in the ground trying to wheel land the plane at around 70 mph.
 

Hephaestus

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Warnke wasn't an 'oddball'. A better way of thinking of him is this: Craig Catto is our 'modern times' faint shadow of Bernie Warnke.
No, but you can't exactly replace it. Nor are people making new versions. (Although I hear performance props has one similar)

There's a big group of the old timers of the air racing age that ran some neat designs, I wish we had the details of some of those old props or more than just a rare poor angle grainy picture to run through the photogrammetry software to get an idea of what they'd done.

I call them oddball not as derogatory, but more as they're a 1-off (or not) that is lost to time and design evolution that ended decades ago.
 

rv7charlie

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If my failing memory serves, Frank Johnson (Performance Props) was at one time married to Bernie's daughter, and 'apprenticed' under Bernie. And you're right; I couldn't replace it, even when Bernie was alive. I called, and his lead time was several months. He did agree to send me an 'experimental' (as in, his experiment) bent-tip prop he'd been playing with, so I could get back in the air.
 

Topaz

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I looked at Jack Norris's web page. It reminds me of a myriad free energy sites...
However, the lemniscate shape of the optimum thrust distribution along the blade is correct, so his writing style may be the funky part. He also references Theodoresen, who wrote a long multi part paper on propellers. Betz is the grandfather of propeller analysis.
I may have to buy yet another book now...
The perfect prop for me can wait until I have flight tested.
Jack is a fun character (met him at the 2018 ESA Western Workshop), but he clearly knows his stuff and has a long lifetime of experience backing it up. A very long lifetime. Meaning this book isn't going to be available forever, and it explains his preference for physical payment.
 

pwood66889

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Jack is a fun character (met him at the 2018 ESA Western Workshop)
Have corresponded and talked via phone with Mr. Jack Norris, Topaz, and your assessment seems correct to me.
I have and have read his book on props. Recommended for those who can see beyond his style. Wish I could catch his act some day.
And he'd send me a copy of that code we discussed... :)
 

Aerowerx

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Marion, Ohio
Get some US currency from someone, and mail it to Jack. He's a great guy and wants to see his book read and used.
NO!!!!

I worked for the US Postal Service for 10 years at the Columbus (Ohio) processing and sorting facility. I HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS TO STUFF IN THE MAIL.

And I don't mean getting stolen.

Ask if he has paypal, or use a money transfer service. I recommend WorldRemit (no, I do not work for them. They are the only one I have dealt with that treats you like a human being instead of a crook.)
 

rv7charlie

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Yeah, well...I worked in a P&DC for 22 years, 1st as an electronics tech and then as a DAS, and then as an OSS, and I've seen what happens to stuff in the mail. Pretty much the same stuff that happens to stuff at UPS, and (especially) FEDEX (just less often). If you mail a check, it'll almost certainly get there on time. And if by some remotely long odds it doesn't get there, the chance of somebody actually stealing and cashing the check are about like getting struck by lightning. Twice. Can't address mail service in other countries, of course.

More on topic: Anyone know for sure that Norris is still around to ship the book? Dates on the website seem to be from a decade ago.

Charlie
 

Aerowerx

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Yeah, well...I worked in a P&DC for 22 years, 1st as an electronics tech and then as a DAS, and then as an OSS, and I've seen what happens to stuff in the mail. Pretty much the same stuff that happens to stuff at UPS, and (especially) FEDEX (just less often). If you mail a check, it'll almost certainly get there on time. And if by some remotely long odds it doesn't get there, the chance of somebody actually stealing and cashing the check are about like getting struck by lightning. Twice. Can't address mail service in other countries, of course.

More on topic: Anyone know for sure that Norris is still around to ship the book? Dates on the website seem to be from a decade ago.

Charlie
Hey, Charlie, what facility did you work at? I was also a electronics tech.

Off topic, but what got me was people who would spend $7 to send their mortgage payment by Priority Mail. It would be cheaper to just send it by first class, and probably get there sooner. One of the machines I worked on was the APPS. Priority mail (flat or box) went through that, and we were constantly picking things up off the floor.
 

kent Ashton

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Concord, NC
I have read some of the books but they are not practical, especially the Norris book. About all I got from Norris was "thin tips" which is correct but after that . . .

I built two props for pushers that worked rather well just based on studying the pitch and length others used. I wrote up a page on building the second one here. https://www.canardzone.com/forums/topic/33481-kents-propeller-thread

It was a lot of work but fun. I also glassed them. See how I used a vector diagram to resolve the balance. It ain't rocket science but I never saw that mentioned anywhere else.
 

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plncraze

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Collecting miscellaneous prop advice can be fun and entertaining! I believe IIRC that Wynne used vector addition for use with props in his Corvair manual. Eric Clutton has a prop book. Bill Evans had a section on his design manual for props. Fred Weick had his NACA report reprinted in Sport Aviation. Does anyone remember Ken Swain? Our own Hugh Lorimer has posted his prop stuff here. Kent Paser has a chapter on props.
Thank you for sharing yours Kent. Especially since it's a pusher. Pushers seem like they the toughest design scenario for props.
 

BBerson

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In 1980, I used an EAA booklet with reprints of Raoul Hoffman's prop nomograms and carving instructions.
Sort of a spreadsheet of 1930’S. I carved five different size/pitch props to get optimal static thrust. They all had the same static thrust.
 

plncraze

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Some homebuilders had a Hummel or Watson or Teenie and used a few different references for props. They said they had good luck with Weick. Since he literally wrote the book I'm glad his nomogram worked LOL
 

TFF

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Not design but one of the most entertaining presentation at Oshkosh was the prop carver. I have not seen him for years. Old as dirt. You would sit down and he would draw out his blank, hack the big chunks with an electric chainsaw, then chisel, and grinder and sander. Then he would look up and say, “Any questions?” Everyone was saying “wait a second” and the questions would pour in.
 

plncraze

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Yeah! I used to have a picture book of his forum. Looks fast
 
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