New Community Amphibious LSA VAL-31 "Aquarius" a non commercial project

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by anvegger, Jan 4, 2018.

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  1. Jan 9, 2018 #41

    anvegger

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    As I have mentioned before our goal is to keep the price of the package very very reasonable. As of now we have selected 50% of our suppliers and all of them are American Companies. The material's cost is expected to be adequate to the price tag of A metal LSA KIT airplane. Let us say that we are targeting the collection of a ZENITH CH 650 B - or a Searay (Progressive Teradyne) : Searey Kits start at just $38,900 and require 600-1000 hours to build.

    Reasonable compatible price tag is our target. As of now we have selected our Carbon Fiber material manufacturer, Epoxy Resin manufacturer as well as Core Foam manufacturer. All of them are US Companies and all of them are impressed with our concept and with our design. The initial material investment is (as of today) below $10 000 . we have invested about $5000 into our infrastructure - but that is reasonably applicable to our operational expenses. I would say that we are in a target price line. The question from our supplier was how we would be able to keep our corporate expenses to manage such a R&D cost, my answer was the same way of how Linus Torvalds kept his competition against Bill Gates and Steve Jobs over thirty years: knowledge is the key.

    Bill%u00252Bgates%u00252Bsteve%u00252Bjobs%u00252Blinus%u00252Btorvalds.jpg
     
  2. Jan 9, 2018 #42

    anvegger

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    As I have mentioned before our goal is to keep the price of the package very very reasonable. As of now we have selected 50% of our suppliers and all of them are American Companies. The material's cost is expected to be adequate to the price tag of A metal LSA KIT airplane. Let us say that we are targeting the collection of a ZENITH CH 650 B - or a Searay (Progressive Teradyne) : Searey Kits start at just $38,900 and require 600-1000 hours to build.

    Reasonable compatible price tag is our target. As of now we have selected our Carbon Fiber material manufacturer, Epoxy Resin manufacturer as well as Core Foam manufacturer. All of them are US Companies and all of them are impressed with our concept and with our design. The initial material investment is (as of today) below $10 000 . we have invested about $5000 into our infrastructure - but that is reasonably applicable to our operational expenses. I would say that we are in a target price line. The question from our supplier was how we would be able to keep our corporate expenses to manage such a R&D cost, my answer was the same way of how Linus Torvalds kept his competition against Bill Gates and Steve Jobs over thirty years: knowledge is the key.

    View attachment 68647
     
  3. Jan 10, 2018 #43

    narfi

    narfi

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    Sorry if my questions are stupid.... I am learning :)

    Your progress pictures here, are they for the hull, or for the mold for the hull?
    The mix of former boards and foam confuse me...

    I am building a boat now with my son, and it is amazing how similar the process is at this stage, I showed him your pictures and he got excited with ideas :) (he is 8yrs old)
    If this is the hull (and not a mold) what advantages are there to shaping the strakes in your original layup? It would save some weight I suppose, but seems a lot more work vs. just making a straight clean hull and adding the strakes afterwords?

    I have always loved the look of the planes by this designer, and it seems you are doing a great job in his memory.
    I will be watching your progress and if possible this could be at the top of my list for next project..... (plan with my son was, 1. canoe, 2. boat, 3. small plane 4. family size plane ----- we finished the canoe last fall and will probably be finished with the boat this coming summer)

    Your goal is to provide as a kit or as plans? Even though I realize it is more work, plans for a plane like this would certainly be something we could be interested in next year.
     
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  4. Jan 10, 2018 #44

    anvegger

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    Dear narfi Many many thanks for your interest. My answer will be a bit complex if I may. This is a hull. But that is our prototype at the same time. That geometry, exactly as is, will be later used for our mold production. We will be using that prototype of our fuselage boat for creating a number of molds and distributing those molds to everyone who might be interested in participating in our project. The prototype will be used as a PLUG and redistributing to EAA chapters per their request. Clone technology
     
  5. Jan 10, 2018 #45

    anvegger

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    If we would be hypothetically comparing our methodology with Raptor Aircraft approach or with Equator P2 Excursion approach that would be hard doing that due to our simplicity to keep our cost very very low and make our "Aquarius" very affordable and distributed using an "open source" common knowledge. We are inspired by Bert Rutan's construction recommendations that are very much what we are doing but we have decided using carbon fiber instead of fiber glass. I am a big fan of Rutan's technology . I have studied that a lot. And i am sure that we will be using most of his techniques forward.
     
  6. Jan 10, 2018 #46

    anvegger

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    As I said before - we will be using very much an "open source" technology. All of the data , information paperwork , supporting materials , testing data , construction manuals, FAA recommendations and certification guidelines will be free and clear. We will be using a Public License as a core promotion feature. All our in house training and knowledge sharing classes will be paid. The educational and knowledge distribution - that how we will be collecting our revenue. Pilot's training, construction assistance for those who might be interested in buying (not building) our airplane. We will be inviting all the new EAA members for classes of "try and buy" program. Keeping the cost law we will be selling raw materials wholesale price to our retail individual members. You don't need to go and pay big bucks to Aircraft Spruce or Amazon or Fiber Glast retails etc We will be selling an "Aquarius" simulator as a hardware - software packages upon the delivery. That will be another excited project since the more people will be flying our plane the more beautiful backgrounds they will be posting and we will be reusing those images for next generation of trainees , we would be also collecting a small membership fee for those who would become our co-mates in Aquarius redistribution program but that idea mostly will be our community charge (like non-for a profit organisation or educational promotional type of charge) and as I previously said - the more people will be joining our program the less money will be each aircraft required to spend.
     
  7. Jan 11, 2018 #47

    narfi

    narfi

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    Ok, I don't fully understand, but this looks like exactly the sort of thing I have been looking for!
    I will keep watching your progress and may just may become one of your builders in a year or so :)
     
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  8. Jan 11, 2018 #48

    spaschke

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    I can't wait to see your version. I love Annenkov designs. However, I've always wondered if the L-42 and L-72 were underpowered. The engines seem so small for a 4 or 6 place. I haven't seen if it would fly on one engine.
    Steve
     
  9. Jan 11, 2018 #49

    anvegger

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    Steve - many thanks for your message. In our mental condition (I am referring to "us" as Americans) we all love power. That is why Dodge Chrysler Lincoln Cadillac are truly "our" cars. Made in America for us . Ukraine , Russia and some European countries not always have been introduced to that "engine power" Think about FIAT as an example. Or Trabant Lada Samara Or my very first vehicle called "Zaporozhets" . We (and here I ma referring to my Eastern European origins) were not exposed to that "real power" at all over there. I personally working with my Ukraine colleagues manufacturer of 5 sitter aircraft composites KIT called ANG-01 that is equipped with 114 H.P. Rotax and can compete with any of "super loaded" planes. That is a bit of an OFF-TOP - but please look at the video




    That is a 5 sitter plane with an outstanding characteristics.
     
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  10. Jan 11, 2018 #50

    anvegger

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    L-42 and L-72 those planes are flying castles - you may live and eat inside,take a bath and enjoy your breakfast while flying long distance. Truly powerful well designed and well performed amphibious. I am talking to the owners of that corporation to bring those planes to America. They are designed to fly on twin Rotaxes. But the scheme is so flexible that I am sure I can install any two modern engines on that frame. Without major conversion of the boat
     
  11. Jan 11, 2018 #51

    orkaan

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    Прошу прощения мистер Вегер, но я не вижу характеристики вашего проекта гидро самолета.... не вижу мощность двигателя, который Вы собираетессь ставить на свой гидро самолет... может я не внимательно смотрел... сорри...
    I'm sorry Mr. Veger, but I do not see the characteristics of your hydro-jet project .... I do not see the power of the engine that you are going to put on your hydro airplane ... maybe I did not look carefully ... sorry ...
     
  12. Jan 11, 2018 #52

    BJC

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    Thanks for that. One of the things that I enjoy about HBA.com is learning about designs that I have not seen here in the USA.

    How long is the runway in the video?


    BJC
     
  13. Jan 11, 2018 #53

    anvegger

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    Dear orkaan, Many thanks for your statement. Please take a look at the original plane data . That plane is flying in Volga River neighborhood city of Taliatti We used this plane as our inspiration vehicle. In order to become a bit more familiar with the requirements I would ask you a favor and review the ASTM requirements for an amphibious LSA airplane. The list of those requirements quite extensive But in short it looks like that: ASTM Committee F37 Requirements

     
  14. Jan 11, 2018 #54

    anvegger

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    Our goal is to bring these ASTM' defined standards to all of our fellow builders, and their mates pilots. Most definitely some deviation will be expected based on the individual ability to operation more complex planes. But we would be strongly recommending the use of E-LSA or EAB approach under LSA requirements construction. Using that market as our target audience the number of potential pilots will be endless. Keep in mind that there are 2 000 000 student pilots that don't want to fly 50 years old aluminum construction conventional planes they can afford. They really hesitate continue the PPL path as of now. They want something easy to operate light and fun flying and LSA rules seams to be exactly developed for that group of people.
     
  15. Jan 11, 2018 #55

    anvegger

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    Here is the Tech Characteristics of that plane:


    Число мест (sits) 5
    Двигатель Rotax 912 (Turbo IC) 125 л.с.
    Тип топлива Автомобильный (fuel) А-92,А-95,А-98
    Винт 3 лопастной, ВИШ (Variable Pitch propeller)
    Шасси 3-х стоечное, убираемое гидравликой (Gear retructable hydro)
    Загрузка МАХ 850 кг (Max Weight = 850 kg
    Вес пустого 380 кг (Empty weight = 380 kg)
    Объем баков топливных 127 л (2х56+15л) Fuel capacity
    Площадь крыла 11,3 м2 Wings sq area
    Размах крыла 9,6 м Wings size
    Длина самолета 7,138 м length
    Высота 2,65 м height
    Ширина фюзеляжа МАХ 1,35 м (width)
    Высота кабины 1,2 м Cockpit height size
    Длина кабины МАХ 3,0 м Cockpit length
    Нагрузка на крыло 80 кг/м2 (wing max load )
    Колея шасси 2,1 м (gear width)
    Размер колес 8” (420 мм) wheels
    Багажное отделение 300 литров (luggage compartment)
    Аэродинамическое качество МАХ 19 (aerodynamic coefficient)
    Крейсерская скорость 250 км/ч (cruise speed)
    Посадочная скорость 70 км/ч (landing speed)
    Скороподъемность 3,5 м/с (take off speed)
    Разбег 300 м (take off)
    Пробег 150 м (landing)
     
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  16. Jan 11, 2018 #56

    anvegger

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    This plane is a complex plane but with extraordinary characteristics.
     
  17. Jan 11, 2018 #57

    orkaan

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  18. Jan 11, 2018 #58

    anvegger

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    V-24 is not a competition to our amphibian. V-24 was initially presented as an ultra light plane. And unfortunately Mr Yakovlev told me the last year when we met at Sun and Fun in Lakeland FL that V-24 has no future development and his focus will be primarily targeted to A-22 and A-32 planes that he has his success upon. If I am not mistaken that plane - V-24 was presented on Canadian Market a few years back but for some reasons did not get off of the ground with the sales and distribution. Our plane is different - We will be selling KITs and drawings wholesale price to those enthusiasts who would be able to study and to erect the plane for personal enjoyment use. That is a different audience so our market is different. However if we would be seeing that V-24 plane among Progressive Teradyne' Searey it would be fantastic. They share a lot among both planes airframe construction:

    The plane is a mix metal + fabric covered wing and empennage and fiberglass hull boat. I just noticed also that line:

    That violates LSA rules requirements
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  19. Jan 11, 2018 #59

    anvegger

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    Our plane is meant to be carbon fiber reinforced materials construction. We will be also covering the hull with penetration resistant protection film and that will be an extra safety feature for our fellow pilots and their passengers
     
  20. Jan 11, 2018 #60

    orkaan

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    your boat should be light, since one motor Rotax 914 is very small ....
    Carbonate should reduce weight, but raise the price ...
    Alexander's "Patriot" plane has good aerodynamics, so it flies magnificently with the rotax of 115-130hp, which can not be said about a seaplane ...
    I have a little experience of flying on the Viking and sometimes it seems very difficult for me to take off from the water area ...
     

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