New Aircraft engine ..

Discussion in 'Supplier / Manufacturer Announcements' started by 1946, Jun 14, 2015.

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  1. Jun 14, 2015 #1

    1946

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    Perhaps an answer to Honda Viking..? The Suzuki G13B Factory New, slanted to 64 degrees at 87 Kg dry developing some 110hp dry, would make a nice LSA engine. This engines power millions of delivery vans, Suzuki cars and light trucks in China very reliable and sturdy. This engine has not been modified in any way but on request the internals can be improved, such as Mahle pistons and rings, H beam roads and SS valves and a minimal cost. Additional, this engine can be Turbo charged to a 26/29 hp increase at a less than 2 k with an ECU piggyback with a kit from Japan. While we have a bell-housing with ears for the upright engine, now working hard to manufacture the bell-housing with ears for the slanted engine, we expect to be done in the next 30/45 days.
     

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  2. Jun 14, 2015 #2

    don january

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    under 40 horse,m be hard to clear the tree's in my KR2, It is a really nice looking engine and would be cool for the Taylor mono plane. Would like to know the fire wall demintion's, What would be the prop speed at 5600 rpm be?? Weight?? how many liter displacement?
     
  3. Jun 14, 2015 #3

    azsportpilot

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    I believe the OP quoted 110hp with an additional 26-29hp if turbocharged, not sure what you mean by “under 40 horses”… sounds like we are talking about 110-139hp

     
  4. Jun 15, 2015 #4

    don january

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    Sound's like you are right, would make the KR perform nice if it would fit under the cowl.
     
  5. Jun 15, 2015 #5

    Aesquire

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    The Suzuki was once, recently, a popular engine in the U.S.. ....

    No longer sold here in cars.... no more Suzuki auto sales, no spare parts. Orphan engine.

    Not the best power to weight ratio, but ok. Engineering for psru was done and several sold.

    Should be readily available in China. They sell Japanese domestic market engines that failed strict emissions testing at cheap prices in other countries. The logic probably is everyone else cares less about pollution and the laws are looser.

    I understand in Europe Renault engines are popular. Not sold U.S. so no interest here. Doubt you have better luck in Hong Kong with that brand.

    Orphans like this can be very expensive to maintain when the support dries up but can seem a bargain at the time. Parts are still available here for a few years. Suzuki isn't going out of business just gave up on the U.S. market for cars & trucks.

    You ever see those Thai river boats with truck engines mounted on a pivot pedestal with a long prop shaft? The design became popular when England changed rules and a generation of under powered truck engines were sold at scrap prices in Asia. As they die they get replaced by the next cheapest engines.

    Of course if your boat engine dies you need a tow home. Bit different for an airplane.
     
  6. Jun 15, 2015 #6

    Himat

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    But Corvair and aircooled VW engines are popular?
    Both no longer sold in new cars long time ago.
    I guess they are no longer supported by the manufacturers.

    Spare parts are then only from third party vendors, the Suzuki engine should be no different when production eventually ceases. And if it follow the pattern of car engines, parts can be have for really obsolete engines.
     
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  7. Jun 15, 2015 #7

    TFF

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    On old engines, its a water vs air cooled debate. Water has everything for efficiency and almost nothing for ease of installation. Air cooled will always be the default until mounting a water cooled engine only comprises of bolting on the motor mount and hooking up the fuel and throttle. It is the doctrine unless you like swimming up stream. Until someone comes up with a bolt on replacement for a Lycoming that is an air cooled diesel, no one will get real traction on being the next engine. And right now with what we have, it cant be done.
     
  8. Jun 15, 2015 #8

    1946

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    I think you are mistaken, the Suzuki G13B and the slanted JL474 engines meets the strict EU emission controls, the engines are manufactured in China and exported to the EU markets. In regards to spare part that will not dry up, the independent dealers will make sure you guys get what you need for years to come. For the slanted Suzuki JL474 engine, that could be a problem, but with nowadays international curriers any part can be delivered in 48hr to your door from China. Shame is, you guys miss on a good car..
     
  9. Jun 15, 2015 #9

    azsportpilot

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    I am curious what the weight would be with reduction drive installed, you quoted 87kg Dry, what about the “Wet weight” with oil, coolant, radiator, hoses, exhaust and reduction drive
     
  10. Jun 15, 2015 #10

    1946

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    The quoted 87 Kg dry is only with the bell-housing and the T4 PSRU, we are not sure what would be the weight with all other ancillaries. I am sure it will be over the 90kg,
     
  11. Jun 15, 2015 #11

    Dana

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    VW and Corvair remain popular because there remains a loyal enthusiast following due to their unique designs, and the vw is used in many other things, dune buggies, etc., so there are many aftermarket parts suppliers. That's not the case for a more ordinary car like a Suzuki.

    Dana
     
  12. Jun 15, 2015 #12

    Himat

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    I am not quite sure. The Corvair and VW are engines with a loyal following of enthusiasts, but by no means the only. Quite few engines have similar status, and some of them rather mundane engines. The Coventry Climax was a fire pump engine, you can still have parts for it I think. Then, how many engines do Ford have that there is still parts for years after they where discontinued?

    The Suzuki G13 I think have been used in the Jimny and other Suzuki "jeep" cars, and they might attract followers for a long time to come.
     
  13. Jun 15, 2015 #13

    Aesquire

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    Not knocking suzuki. I've owned 3 Suzuki motorcycles.

    Subaru, Mazda, Suzuki, Honda, ( Ford, Chevy ) all have PSRU designs and conversions on the market. ( or did, or will, )

    "I think you are mistaken, the Suzuki G13B and the slanted JL474 engines meets the strict EU emission controls, the engines are manufactured in China and exported to the EU markets."

    True. They also sell in the U.S. replacement engines from Japan, brand new, that failed Japan pollution tests, and are simply sold cheap here. This is the source for some aircraft conversions U.S.

    If you're in Hong Kong, by all means use the available engines and parts streams. In the U.S. the Suzuki market will be more expensive, and in the near future, the new good Suzuki engines won't have any domestic parts. Since they seem to be pretty reliable, I wouldn't worry if I had a Suzuki conversion.


    RE: Corvairs & VW's. Both aircooled legacy engines that fit nicely in place of a small Continental/Lycoming.

    In the VW's case the Dune buggy and brand Cult have kept it alive, and there are multiple small manufacturers of conversions and parts.
    In the Corvair's case there have been less manufacturers but Chevrolet made over a million of them and they didn't all get ruined by racers. Finite but not bothersome supply, Domestically. Probably a poor choice for Europe or Honk Kong.

    Please keep us informed on your progress. There are a lot of Suzuki engines flying. And always interest in economical, reliable conversions.

    I'll not argue liquid vs. air cooled. The cooling system has to be designed to keep the proper temperatures with the minimum cooling drag on both.
     
  14. Jun 15, 2015 #14

    azsportpilot

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    so it sounds like it will be around 200 Lbs or more (90kg)...... a bit heavy
    the 100hp Rotax 912s comes in around 147 Lbs (67Kg) installed
    the 120hp Jabiru 3300 weighs in at 178 Lbs (81Kg) installed
    the 115hp Rotax 914 weighs 166 Lbs (75Kg) installed

    then to compare the Viking/Honda you mentioned as your primary competitor their dry weight is 176Lbs (80Kg).... 7kg / 15.4 Lbs lighter than the Suzuki you are developing.... and many feel they are too heavy

    the Suzuki sounds very interesting and sounds like a low cost alternative to the more common options, but at a bit of a weight penalty

    for those who can afford it they can install a 914 and save 35Lbs, for those who cant they can opt for the Viking/Honda or your Suzuki and just carry 6 gallons less fuel
     
  15. Jun 15, 2015 #15

    RavenMad

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    The G13B and G13BB engines are not the same. The G13B engine is found in Suzuki Cultus GTI performance models with 100HP and is a DOHC 16V unit. The G13BB engine only has single camshaft and is 80HP using carburetor or 85HP for fuel injection. The Chinese copy engines are the 80HP G13BB not the G13B. The Suzuki engine models can be a little confusing.

    Raven Redrives have 20 years of Suzuki redrive experience and offers 90HP or turbocharged 115HP G13BB packages with highly developed, reliable, light redrives.

    Raven Rotorcraft Redrives: Geo-Suzuki Engine Conversion for Gyroplanes and Ultralights


    I would like to inform you that those weights are not true. The G13BB weighs 14LBS less than the Honda. Raven is currently developing a Jazz/Fit 115HP engine package. The G13BB engine with turbocharger is the same weight though.
     
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  16. Jun 15, 2015 #16

    azsportpilot

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    The Viking/Honda weight figures quoted are from the specs tab on the Viking website

    I see on your website you are quoting a weight if 212 Lbs for your 110hp model... is that "Dry" or "Installed" weight?
     
  17. Jun 15, 2015 #17

    1946

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    Yes, nice plug. I believe Raven has a long experience in redrives and with Japanese manufactured Suzuki engines. In China, this is somehow ambiguous, the G13B is called in China 474 and depends of the Chinese manufacturer as there are at least 16 variations to the engine, some of the 474 are carbureted others are EFI , now ad a Q after 474 and the engine come slanted with 110HP again ad an R , the engine has now 160 HP and different emission controls, the JL 474q , again is slanted but it come with 120 HP , worse of the Chinese manufacturer will never give you exact specifications, to make it more confusing, there are hundred Suzuki spare manufactures adding there on improvements. Our engines come from a plant in Taicang (Shanghai) and we can say an excellent reversed engineered engine with Suzuki approvals. So they say. I am looking forward to see the new Raven Jazz/Fit 115HP engine development.
     
  18. Jun 16, 2015 #18

    raven-rotor

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    Azsportpilot

    Sorry for the outdated info on our website. The 110HP 212 lb. engine was a past design for the 1.6L Suzuki Sidekick/Geo Tracker engine. The posts from Raven Mad are easy to confuse with us as well, I guess. No association.

    Would be good to update the posts here regarding the different engines- Rotax, Raven, Aeromomentum, Viking, etc. and their respective weights. Some times its very confusing when you aren't comparing apples to apples. Our weights are always dry weight- less prop, radiator coolant and oil. Rotax® tends to use the same specs but include radiator and oil cooler. BTW the weights for the 912S and 914 are a bit low in an earlier post here because of what is not included.

    If I remember correctly you can also go to Vikings online installation manual to see the all up weight weight of their engine with radiator, oil cooler and so on.

    We also looked into the Chinese G13BB clones as a source for future engines but they are not parts interchangeable with Japanese market engines I have been told.

    Hope this helps.

    Jeron Smith
    Raven ReDrives Inc.
    303-440-6234
     
  19. Jun 16, 2015 #19

    raven-rotor

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    Forgot to mention that your 'New' Aircraft Engine post here should probably be retitled as AeroMomentum out of Florida has been converting the Chinese lay down G13BB for at least a year or two now (same engine as in your first post). They are based in Florida and have exhibited at Oshkosh, Sun n Fun, etc. They make a well done package of their own original design with a custom gearbox.

    Jeron Smith
    Raven ReDrives Inc.
     
  20. Jun 16, 2015 #20

    1946

    1946

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    Jeron

    The title ‘new engine’ is new to us promoting a Chinese made engine. I am very well aware of Aeromomentum while the engines are the same, they are not willing to admit the origins of the engines been Chinese, quite understandable since there is some degree of misgiving in the west for Chinese made products. But, for the sake of transparency, I believe origins of the engines should be made clear to the buyers, this because the Suzuki engines are manufactured in China with different specifications and parts are not interchangeable with the Japanese made Suzuki engines. Never the less, Chinese made Suzuki engines are as good as the Japanese made ones, just cheaper.

    1946
     

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