Jungster 1 & 2 aircraft

[Dominic Eller]

Oh wow! Fighting 14. I love that Jungster livery! Great job! Can you take lots of detailed pics of fittings etc.. it looks like there are adjustment available on the struts? What engine does it have? It would be great if you fill these pages with all and any info and experience you have building/rebuilding and flying the Jungster 1.
I’m tempted to totally steal your livery for ours! Thanks for posting !

 

[Fighting 14]

The big issue with the battery is really where to put it. The light weight batteries are temp sensitive to what might be encountered under the cowling, and they are expensive. Also the firewall on the Jungster is not much of a structure on which to attach a heavy battery. My CG does not allow for a battery behind the cockpit. So I went with the small Co-pilot jump start type battery. It will give you about 10 starts when used with an O-320 or O-290 D2. I have it within the cockpit for start, then disconnect it from the aircraft starter leads after startup and place it in a secure zippered case. The cockpit is so small that I have it secured and put away after start. The battery pack is well designed and the leads are such that you would have to work at it to cause a spark. It works great. It takes very little time to recharge as well.

 

[Fighting 14]

Oh wow! Fighting 14. I love that Jungster livery! Great job! Can you take lots of detailed pics of fittings etc.. it looks like there are adjustment available on the struts? What engine does it have? It would be great if you fill these pages with all and any info and experience you have building/rebuilding and flying the Jungster 1.
I’m tempted to totally steal your livery for ours! Thanks for posting !

Thanks....you may have noticed it does not have the pregnant belly like other Jungsters. This is possible because Benner built it using pushrods for the elevator and the rudder. I will see if I can get some pictures of all that together for you to look at. The geometry required by using cables to the elevator needs more room in the belly. The cowling uses a Cub type nose bowl and modified Twin Commanche cowling. It even has the cowl flap. The first Jungster I flew 49 years ago was in Denver and I would routinely do triple snap rolls with it. I would not do that with this one. That first airplane had double the wires on the tail and it was beefed up. It also had 4 wires on the wings. I would advise getting some Pitts S-2 time before going out and flying yours if you have not already. Remember the Jungster has 14 sq. feet less wing than a Pitts S-1. The current Jungster has an O-290 D2 and a Culver prop.

 

[andyvg52]

I’m slowly getting these cabanes sorted.
More than once I’ve thought this job might be a bit above my pay grade, but lots of thinking before cutting and making test bits out of the limited scrap streamline tube I have has got me to the tacked up point. Just making up the finger straps and boxing them in to go. These are of course a little tricky to make with a good fit up for welding due to the 11 deg wing sweep, the bushings are at an angle to the CL of the streamline tube. I’ve used the streamline tube parent material to align the bushings, then the finger straps will go over the top. If I did the job again I would probably just cut the tube off sq and finger strap straight to them, would have saved a bunch of time but the way I did it left me more options during my learning and has worked out ok.
I’ll be pleased when this job is ticked off the list! Finished making the tangs I’ve been putting off for ages too .View attachment 115744View attachment 115745View attachment 115746View attachment 115747View attachment 115748View attachment 115749View attachment 115750View attachment 115751View attachment 115752View attachment 115753

Looks like some quality fabrication there..!

 

[TFF]

If will have to see if my 290 will start straight from my booster. I’m trying not to carry a built in battery but it would be nice as an option if I went somewhere.

 

[BJC]

If will have to see if my 290 will start straight from my booster. I’m trying not to carry a built in battery but it would be nice as an option if I went somewhere.

My first S-1S had no starter. Weighed 756 pounds with aluminum spring gear. Lots of people offered to prop it for me, but very few actually knew how to safely prop it, so I usually tied it down and propped it myself. Major PITA when trying to get somewhere.

The one in my avatar has the bungee gear, a starter and a battery, but no alternator. Weighs 800 pounds. Being able to climb in, start up and go is a big plus. It could be 20 pounds lighter with a different battery. The battery also powers the hand held radio Ty-Wraped in.

Your booster idea sounds like a good solution, if it will start a hot Lycoming.


BJC

 

[Fighting 14]

This is the ticket. Fits in your hand and provides multiple starts before needing recharging. It has features such as a light and a percentage remaining readout. We don't leave home without one. It will start my Cessna 180 multiple times as well. I have not tried it but I am sure it would start the 450 hp R-985 on my N3N-3 as well. Hope this will help you.

 

[Fighting 14]

Just be sure to wire a starter switch or button into the system. That way you will avoid any chance of a spark while attaching the battery clips to your starter leads. The batt pack has a built in fuse. Works like a million bucks.

 

[BJC]

Looks good. Does it really weigh less than a pound?


BJC

 

[TFF]

Mine starts with a button and I have the “gpu “ plug in the cockpit. Toss the power cable overboard once running. But my plan was to fly out of an airport that I am not at as much, even though the plane is there now. At some point I will have to move it. I have a similar pack I carry in the car and have used it a couple of times, but never without a battery.

 

[Dominic Eller]

Interesting idea re the power pack, I have one “just in case” in my car, grunty little units. I am looking towards the earth x battery…..but maybe I’ll look at just the jumper unit.

 

[Dominic Eller]

Thanks....you may have noticed it does not have the pregnant belly like other Jungsters. This is possible because Benner built it using pushrods for the elevator and the rudder. I will see if I can get some pictures of all that together for you to look at. The geometry required by using cables to the elevator needs more room in the belly. The cowling uses a Cub type nose bowl and modified Twin Commanche cowling. It even has the cowl flap. The first Jungster I flew 49 years ago was in Denver and I would routinely do triple snap rolls with it. I would not do that with this one. That first airplane had double the wires on the tail and it was beefed up. It also had 4 wires on the wings. I would advise getting some Pitts S-2 time before going out and flying yours if you have not already. Remember the Jungster has 14 sq. feet less wing than a Pitts S-1. The current Jungster has an O-290 D2 and a Culver prop.

re the tail wires on the “triple snap roll” machine, I imagine there was a second set to the LE of the tail plane?
What other ways was that one beefed up?
What empty weight did your Fighting 14 one come in at?

 

[Fighting 14]

As far as the details of how Fred Pool beefed up the tail, that was almost fifty years ago and I remember only that his dad and he strengthened the tail and widened the fuselage. The extra brace wires I remember, but exactly how they strengthened the underlying horizontal stab and vert fin I don't know. But I am here as living proof that it was strong. Fred told me recently that the airplane was sold and eventually wrecked. He said the owner called him and told him no glue joints in the airplane had broken in the accident. Only the wood had failed. Sorry that I cannot provide better info. As far as the empty weight on Fing-14, it is heavier than I expected. Looks like it will tip the scales around 720#. I am going to weigh it again.

 

[TFF]

My Starduster has two sets of tail wires. I have a fixed tail, where the plans show an adjustable stabilizer trim. Mine is tab. It’s just another set of tabs forward on the fin, stab, and fuselage like the ones on the fin post.

 

[Dominic Eller]

As far as the details of how Fred Pool beefed up the tail, that was almost fifty years ago and I remember only that his dad and he strengthened the tail and widened the fuselage. The extra brace wires I remember, but exactly how they strengthened the underlying horizontal stab and vert fin I don't know. But I am here as living proof that it was strong. Fred told me recently that the airplane was sold and eventually wrecked. He said the owner called him and told him no glue joints in the airplane had broken in the accident. Only the wood had failed. Sorry that I cannot provide better info. As far as the empty weight on Fing-14, it is heavier than I expected. Looks like it will tip the scales around 720#. I am going to weigh it again.

Thanks for info. 720# is not too bad, the one I’m re building has 732# on its data plate. I’m hoping to come in a fair bit under that, only time will tell huh.
I notice your tail wheel springs are direct to the rudder, I’m thinking of doing the same. Could you post a couple of pics of your tail wheel springs please,
When I found mine it had the tail springs attached to the rudder cables. I wondered if the direct link method had issues and was changed over?

 

[Fighting 14]

I am going to the hangar later today and I will get you some pics. My observation about the Jungster is that the rudder is really overpowered which easily translates to PIO in yaw especially on the ground. In flight not a big issue as aero forces dampen your foot inputs. Mine originally had VERY stiff short springs to the tailwheel. They resulted in direct drive from foot to rudder and made the airplane overly sensitive on the ground. Over control is as much a problem as under control. I had a friend who had a Stephens Acro set up in the same direct too stiff a spring manner as my Jungster. His answer was to disconnect the the tailwheel from the rudder and fly with it fully castering. He is quite happy with that set-up finding it a vast improvement over his old set-up. The Jungster also has plenty of rudder and for that reason I have gone to longer and lighter springs so that there is a dead area before tailwheel steering kicks in. I will get you some pics. If I had built this airplane I would have engineered it with a less sensitive ratio between pedal throw and rudder movement. I also would not fly it unless I had two good brakes working normally. Doing a lot of taxiing is a very good way of to get your feet in tune with the new airplane as well as how the brakes work and how to use the rudder and brakes together to keep the airplane straight. Yea, on the weight I was surprised. I doubt that any of the previous owners ever weighed it. I expected to see somewhere around 650#. I will get you the pics. Later!

 

[Dominic Eller]

Much appreciated Fighting 14

 

[Dominic Eller]

Just thought of another question for you …. Sick of me yet?
What do you think of stick forces ?
Does the elevator need a trim tab?
I’ve put push pull on both aileron and elevator, bearings in stick and bushings in bell cranks, idler etc.. it’s all very smooth.
I’ve got about 28deg + & - elevator and about the same on rudder.
I can’t remember exactly the aileron but I think I got about 25 each way. I changed the top mount to be inside the aileron, that helped a lot with the getting similar movement top to bottom.
No cam locking either

 

[TFF]

If you do not have a trim tab, the horizontal stabilizer needs to have some ground adjustability. That will be the only way to trim it. If you get it right, you should be able to handle the off trim times. Early Pitts did not have trim. It is a nice thing though, even if it’s trimmed well for most conditions.

 

[Dominic Eller]

Got the upper front two cabane strut attach points boxed in and tacked up, seems like a strong structure
Only 6 more to go
Working on the upper rear now