Insurance?

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Pops

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
8,907
Location
USA.
Every time I see a picture of it I think of the Mulligan or the Monocoupe.
I had drawing of the Mulligan on the wall of the office in the hanger for years until it got to faded.
My first model airplane when I was 8 years old was Clipped Wing MonoCoupe
 
Last edited:

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
2,127
Location
YMM
I'm afraid of next renewal... Hull value is significantly up, but license knocked down to rec permit after the medical snafu, guess I'm not keeping that IFR discount...

Thanks for reminding me - have to talk to agent about that...
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
14,341
Location
Memphis, TN
Sorry to hear but not surprising. We are trying to sell our turbine helicopter at work for the last year. No one can get insurance. Cant sell if no one can’t get insurance. There might be a European customer; to demonstrate to the customer it will cost $5000 for one flight, have to pay $19,000 up front just in case you make more than one flight.
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
14,597
Location
Port Townsend WA
Maybe high a professional pilot for the 100 hours. 20 hours a year as a passenger might be enough fun. Then after that five years insurance might be different.
 

TXFlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,029
Location
Republic of Texas
Maybe high a professional pilot for the 100 hours. 20 hours a year as a passenger might be enough fun. Then after that five years insurance might be different.
I have a pro test pilot hired for Phase One. One the of the best test pilots around. I’m happy to have him on my team.
Then we just need to get another 60 hours flown. But they will never give flight coverage because of the LS-376-495 engine.

I don’t know many people who would drive a $200,000 Ferrari without insurance, much less an airplane that costs that much or more.
 

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,861
Location
US
Is it possible to get reasonably priced liability coverage without any hull coverage? If so, then you could at least make the choice to risk your investment in order to get enjoyment from the money and time you've already spent.
Maybe things are different regionally, but where I am most airports that rent hangar space require liability coverage.
Sorry you are having this problem.
 
Last edited:

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
14,341
Location
Memphis, TN
Back when Ferraris were 40k new, lots were liability only. A Corvette was only 7k and that would eat you out of house and home. Insurance started taking on the higher priced cars because now they are mostly props. Then you have the Kevin Hart, Eddie Griffin, Paul Walker crashes that are doing the same as the Kobe and Chris Cline helicopter crashes that have eaten ten years worth of future profit for the aviation insurance. Then you have Boeing. About the only thing insurable is airlines and EMS helicopters because those companies will pay anything and just pass it on to the price. To risk management, aviation is a bad risk and I doubt it will ever be shaken.
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,364
Location
Jackson
Unfortunately, you picked a really bad time to step into the insurance market. You (also unfortunately) picked characteristics that are 'the first to go' when ins companies start tightening up their underwriting. Relatively unfamiliar a/c type (and not a great safety record for the ones that are out there), non-traditional engine, owner with zero flight experience, etc.

Note that a small sample size (number flying) will be considered high risk to an underwriter, even if there are no accidents. Since there are already a number of accidents recorded within the small sample size, it looks really bad to an underwriter, and right now they are tightening up on everything, and raising rates on almost everyone. (Unstable investment future.)

I know people that 'self insure' high-dollar toys. It's all about risk/benefit. For example, I flew various homebuilts for many years without hull insurance. I did lose one to a tornado (that one didn't even have liability on it). I could scrape together the purchase price, but the $50-$100 per month for hull coverage exceeded my pain threshold back then. If I lost the plane, at least it was already paid for; it didn't affect the rest of my life.

Charlie
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
14,597
Location
Port Townsend WA
I don’t know many people who would drive a $200,000 Ferrari without insurance, much less an airplane that costs that much or more.
I think it's more how the car is driven then the value of the car.
Since you can't get insurance your only choice is go bare and reduce risk as much as possible. Or exchange for a less risk warbird.
 

TXFlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,029
Location
Republic of Texas
Unfortunately, you picked a really bad time to step into the insurance market. You (also unfortunately) picked characteristics that are 'the first to go' when ins companies start tightening up their underwriting. Relatively unfamiliar a/c type (and not a great safety record for the ones that are out there), non-traditional engine, owner with zero flight experience, etc.

Note that a small sample size (number flying) will be considered high risk to an underwriter, even if there are no accidents. Since there are already a number of accidents recorded within the small sample size, it looks really bad to an underwriter, and right now they are tightening up on everything, and raising rates on almost everyone. (Unstable investment future.)

I know people that 'self insure' high-dollar toys. It's all about risk/benefit. For example, I flew various homebuilts for many years without hull insurance. I did lose one to a tornado (that one didn't even have liability on it). I could scrape together the purchase price, but the $50-$100 per month for hull coverage exceeded my pain threshold back then. If I lost the plane, at least it was already paid for; it didn't affect the rest of my life.

Charlie
I was in the market a year ago, and purchased a decent full coverage policy. With coverage starting at hour zero.

No longer available. Even with an ATP rating, with multiple type ratings, DC-3 time (100+ hours), and over 25,000 hours total time.

The T-51 has only one fatal accident in the USA. A number of claims resulting from off airport arrivals, but the damage was usually minor with the pilot simply walking away.

Yes, small sample size. 250 aircraft kits in the field worldwide, with 150 actually flying.
 

TXFlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,029
Location
Republic of Texas
How much time in similar type?
Single engine tailwheel? 14 hours. But that is not an issue, or it was not an issue at all one year ago. Obtaining coverage was no issue a year ago. Since then, my qualifications have changed, with a recent tailwheel rating.

It looks like all coverage rates are going up, for those who can obtain a policy.
 
Last edited:

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
428
... About the only thing insurable is airlines and EMS helicopters because those companies will pay anything and just pass it on to the price.
...
When i crashed my Hang Glider, in a towing accident, on the Jean dry
lake bed in 2007 ; the helicopter ride to the hospital, (25 miles away) cost
me $12-K ! That is how i lost both legs, below the knee ,BTW :( but
that ain't the story i tell in bars, ; there i say my girlfriend cut them
off, so i wouldn't run away !! :) and that story, is always good , for a free beer.

Bille
 

TXFlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,029
Location
Republic of Texas
When i crashed my Hang Glider, in a towing accident, on the Jean dry
lake bed in 2007 ; the helicopter ride to the hospital, (25 miles away) cost
me $12-K ! That is how i lost both legs, below the knee ,BTW :( but
that ain't the story i tell in bars, ; there i say my girlfriend cut them
off, so i wouldn't run away !! :) and that story, is always good , for a free beer.

Bille
I'll buy you more than just one beer!
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
14,597
Location
Port Townsend WA
Bberson
I bet he already knows that. Probably why he hired a pro test pilot.
Yeah, that's good. But I still think owning a lesser performance taildragger for a while makes sense. Or getting aerobatic time. Or who knows what is needed?
It could be why the insurance company said no.
 

TXFlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,029
Location
Republic of Texas
The time in type, total time, etc., is not the problem. As stated, 14 months ago a nice policy was issued for my plane, with me as the pilot. No problems at all.

Today it is NLA.

A pro test pilot was hired to help in many areas, including assistance in writing an operating handbook specific to my aircraft.

I have never performed Vne, or flutter tests. My test pilot has done this, and much more.
 
Last edited:

Rockiedog2

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
2,588
Yeah, that's good. But I still think owning a lesser performance taildragger for a while makes sense. Or getting aerobatic time. Or who knows what is needed?
It could be why the insurance company said no.
Bberson it looks like he's way ahead of you to me. Sounds like he knows what he needs without you telling him...he's the man on the scene.

LOL.
 
Top