Industrial engine conversion. *Private* group.

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Protech Racing

Well-Known Member
Maybe
Joined. Thanks for setting this up.

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akwrencher

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Requested in to groups.io

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
A note on Groups IO: the email you use to sign up will be the "from" email that all members of the group who are receiving emails will see when you make a post (which is really "sending an email" as well, like Yahoo on the old days).
If this is a concern, I'm sure there are folks who get around this by using disposable/burner email accounts/addresses.
I'd like it more if the email on each user account(along with the user's IP address) were known only to the group owner and the admins, and if the emails had "groups_io.com" as the "from" line. No sense making things easier for hackers, spammers, and data merchants.

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Gregory Perkins

Well-Known Member
Applied,
I will consider doing a stroker in other models if appropriate. Gregory, that's a fair point, but the manner of increase matters. A higher compress and turbo will generate temperature increase rapidly. A longer stroke will only add heat to the half to three quarters inch cylinder section. While increasing higher rpm respiration likely will not increase temperature loads, except of course a friction componant. The same is true of boring the cylinder, except that therein you are more likely to ruin optimum rigidity, possibly effecting ring seal.
I question the accuracy of several of your statements as I think that no matter how the hp is achieved, a certain amount of fuel/gas mixture is going to have to be burned for each hp and if the hp goes up the heat generated HAS to go up proportionately. You should consider that if you increase the stroke, that a greater qty of fuel air is being burned and that heat load will increase for the heads and valves etc as well.

EzyBuildWing

Well-Known Member
Koenigsegg are a very high-tech Swedish car manufacturer, that make road-going cars.
Their latest 4-stroke engines use no camshafts, but air-actuated valves.
They have made a production 2 litre 3 cylinder 600HP 8000 rpm motor which weighs only 70kg…...
This 600HP engine could lift a 6000lb MTOW helicopter....or 2 of them could replace the RR-motor in an R-66 to provide engine-out redundancy!
Here's how Koenigsegg accomplishes it:

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Some impressive engineering, most of which is of little value to an aircraft operated at constant power/rpm - or those of us interested in an inexpensive engine.

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
EzyBuild, I contacted Freevalve and they won't bother with joe publik,
not even to toss out a huge price tag. The tech is commendable, but
not 'here' yet. Fair enough, Gregory, my objective is to make it work.

KharmaRepair, I will keep looking into it, as others have mentioned,
there are challenges to a successful conversion, I'd like to do it right.

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pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
The big problem with camless engines is closing the valves fast enough, but with an acceptably low seating velocity. You need to reliably apply a lot of force, and high precision to a moving target in a hostile environment. That is where the \$development is.

proppastie

Well-Known Member
Log Member
no thanks but this might interest you

n3puppy

Well-Known Member
no thanks but this might interest you
Interesting
Doesn't say exactly what engine used - but is a twin from pictures

BUT He does say
"I like the idea of using 4-Stroke engines just as the manufacturer produced it. Some other 4 stroke PPG/PPC builders seem to modify the engines to run faster, remove engine cowlings, and use hot rod motor parts for added HP; this seems unwise to me."

TiPi

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Looks very much like a 38 Vanguard.

proppastie

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Guy at local airport had one. ....used another of the industrial engines been mentioned here. ...but I am too lazy to search....It was a big paraplane and I wondered if it was under 254 lb....From what he told me I think this is the company.

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
Withdrew from the group,
these heavy engines are
not the right ones for me.

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I am wondering what is thought of using a in flight variable pitch propeller
on the small engines say around 30hp+ like the 810cc Briggs & Stratton?

It is not likely warranted / desired for part 103 ultralights but for E/AB or E/AB Motor glider it may well be desirable as it can make useable power over a wider rpm band without going to even more weight of propeller speed reduction.

IVOPROP In-Flight Adjustable Ultralight Propeller The IVO is available @48"
dia. and will adjust down to 18" pitch. - MT also has a small electric
propeller but I am not sure it would be useful down to 30hp?

The weight would be around twice that of a similar size all wood propeller,

It is a bit on the spendy side but may be warranted to maximize performance? I
mean if you intend to take-off at 35hp-ish around 3600rpm and cruise at 20hp
around 2800 rpm or something like that a fixed pitch is going to be extremely
inefficient at one end of the power curve or the other?

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
I am wondering what is thought of using a in flight variable pitch propeller
on the small engines say around 30hp+ like the 810cc Briggs & Stratton?
I think doubling the prop weight woud be asking a lot of these cankshafts and bearings in these small engines.

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
I am wondering what is thought of using a in flight variable pitch propeller
on the small engines say around 30hp+ like the 810cc Briggs & Stratton?

It is not likely warranted / desired for part 103 ultralights but for E/AB or E/AB Motor glider it may well be desirable as it can make useable power over a wider rpm band without going to even more weight of propeller speed reduction.

IVOPROP In-Flight Adjustable Ultralight Propeller The IVO is available @48"
dia. and will adjust down to 18" pitch. - MT also has a small electric
propeller but I am not sure it would be useful down to 30hp?

The weight would be around twice that of a similar size all wood propeller,

It is a bit on the spendy side but may be warranted to maximize performance? I
mean if you intend to take-off at 35hp-ish around 3600rpm and cruise at 20hp
around 2800 rpm or something like that a fixed pitch is going to be extremely
inefficient at one end of the power curve or the other?
It's a chunk of extra weight and money. It would lower fuel use. I'm going fixed pitch and will use whatever rpm that cruise takes.

Well-Known Member
I'm interested in following the discussion, but don't know if I have much to contribute.

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
A comment on the concept of a private group on HBA.

If I understand the concept, a private group would be a thread that all can read, but only selected members can post to. If that is incorrect, please provide clarification.

Based on that understanding, my preference is that, with the exception of build logs, all HBA threads be available to be participated in by any registered member. When the inevitable thread drift occurs, the OP should refocus the conversation. Should the drift continue, the OP should report the problem to the moderators, who should address the offender.

When the inevitable disruptive post occurs, the OP should reply to the post, and point out the disruptive nature of the post. If others agree, they can support the OP’s position. If that does not correct the problem, then the OP should report the problem to the moderators, who should address the offender.

Moderators have been very lenient wrt allowing people to post ridiculous stuff as long as certain factors such as personal insults or links to pirated plans are avoided. I much prefer that approach to the creation of exclusive threads.

BJC

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I think doubling the prop weight woud be asking a lot of these cankshafts and bearings in these small engines.
I have an adjustable Ivo that I bought just for my 810/Quickie project. Physically attaching it to the crank is going to be a significant project of it's own and probably forces the use of the PTO side with a bolt on 3rd bearing. If I could figure out a simple and elegantly way to add a 3rd bearing to the flywheel side I'll have to buy different blades.

I may never use the IVO and am waiting till further down the development path to make that decision.

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
A comment on the concept of a private group on HBA.

If I understand the concept, a private group would be a thread that all can read, but only selected members can post to. If that is incorrect, please provide clarification.

Based on that understanding, my preference is that, with the exception of build logs, all HBA threads be available to be participated in by any registered member. When the inevitable thread drift occurs, the OP should refocus the conversation. Should the drift continue, the OP should report the problem to the moderators, who should address the offender.

When the inevitable disruptive post occurs, the OP should reply to the post, and point out the disruptive nature of the post. If others agree, they can support the OP’s position. If that does not correct the problem, then the OP should report the problem to the moderators, who should address the offender.

Moderators have been very lenient wrt allowing people to post ridiculous stuff as long as certain factors such as personal insults or links to pirated plans are avoided. I much prefer that approach to the creation of exclusive threads.

BJC
Unfortunately, one particular member keeps posting large amounts of nonsense. Most of small engineheads have him on ignore. But it only takes one new-ish person trying to call his BS to trash a conversation for a few days. Yeah, we could put the responders on ignore too, but I for one don't want to block the people with a clue. Despite many pleas, the mods have not reined him in.
I and many others really don't want to try discussing small engines anywhere he is permitted to post his nonsense.
Several people suggested private conversations here as a solution. Sadly, that seems limited to 4 people. They are not viewable to anyone not invited.

You can find us at https://groups.io/g/SmaSmall-4-stroke-engines It is a moderated group.
There have been at least 13 new members since TiPi suggested we go there to chat...