I'm in deep deep deep ****!

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Chlomo

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Oct 8, 2014
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Seoul
You are goddamn right!
Plus KAI orders materials from US as well. They were so reluctant to reveal any more info though..
 

cheapracer

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Sep 8, 2013
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Australian
Now I agree with you it seems Alibaba sells aluminum with all sorts of certifications but how do I get past 'min order 5 metric tons'...? That's nearly $15~20k and I didn't even throw in shipping cost.
I don't get around it, I find other solutions or cough up the money. Their min orders are usually a lot lower than the advertised amounts but you will still need a quantity that's worth their while to stop a couple of guys to load your truck that's arrived at the factory gate. And lets just say the small amount probably won't get past the purchasing and despatch officer's hands ....

Oh and I am refering to the manufacturer, trading houses don't do small amounts, or even if they will the double handling will put the price too high.

You did go SK specific?

Aluminium 6061 Korea-Aluminium 6061 Korea Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comAluminum Profiles
 
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Vigilant1

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I would spend some time visiting FBOs at airports to find out where they get the materials to make repairs. Someone must be importing materials for the small repair shops.
Or anyone else who uses sheet aluminum. So, you may have to work backward--find the AL, then see where they got it ans ask every step of the way if you can buy some sheets, extrusions, etc. Korea is a major manufacturing economy. Surely there's somebody manufacturing something out of AL sheet (I'll bet they've even got a trade group). You might be able to buy a few sheets of what you need directly from a manufacturer who uses these sheets, or from whoever sells to manufacturers in Korea.
 

Chlomo

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Seoul
Or anyone else who uses sheet aluminum. So, you may have to work backward--find the AL, then see where they got it ans ask every step of the way if you can buy some sheets, extrusions, etc. Korea is a major manufacturing economy. Surely there's somebody manufacturing something out of AL sheet (I'll bet they've even got a trade group). You might be able to buy a few sheets of what you need directly from a manufacturer who uses these sheets, or from whoever sells to manufacturers in Korea.
Yep sure Korea is a major manufacturing nation. Problem is nobody seems to find use for thin gauge al 2024 materials when in many other non aviation applications one can just go for 6061
 

Vigilant1

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Yep sure Korea is a major manufacturing nation. Problem is nobody seems to find use for thin gauge al 2024 materials when in many other non aviation applications one can just go for 6061
Well, you can keep trying to get 2024, but if 6061 is available easily then I'd strongly recommend you look into going with it. Hundreds of planes made with 6061 (including mine) fly around every day. It's different from 2024, but works just as well if you design for it, and it even has some advantageous properties. For example, Korea is pretty much surrounded by ocean, the increased resistance to corrosion of 6061 might be fairly useful.
 

Chlomo

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Seoul
Well the catch is.. 6061 or 2024 it is vastly cheaper to order from USA then trying to source from Korea. Those dealers and merchants in korea have no morality.
 

Chlomo

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Oct 8, 2014
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Seoul
Thank you everyone for your valuable inputs!I hear you and really appreciate them! Ive opted to go for Aircraft Spruce.
 

kennyrayandersen

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Jun 6, 2011
Messages
73
Location
Ft. Worth TX
Most aircraft these days don't use clad but bare. I've been doing stress work for 30 years and have yet to use clad material! Maybe bate might be easier to find.

BTW I worked at KAI for 6 years the last time and 1 1/2 years another time! I saw a couple of parasails but the general aviation there is pretty small!
 

Matt G.

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Nov 16, 2011
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Kansas, USA
Most aircraft these days don't use clad but bare. I've been doing stress work for 30 years and have yet to use clad material! Maybe bate might be easier to find.
Really? That's quite surprising. I'm curious what aircraft you are referring to. Commercial aircraft have extensive use of clad aluminum, as do many factory-built GA aircraft that I have seen.
 

HarleyD

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Feb 16, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Australia
I work for a GA aircraft manufacturer.

first, to follow normal western aviation manufacturing nomenclature you need to express material thickness of 2024 in imperial units typically inches with decimal down to thousandths. SI units are superior for most general purposes but the USA still is the standard in aviation.

we use almost exclusively 2024 T-3 ALCLAD in 0.016, 0.020, 0.025, 0.032, 0.040, 0.050, 0.063 and 0.080 with 025 and032 the most common skin thicknesses. 2024 ALCLAD is by far the most utilised sheet metal material in General Aviation.

we also use 6061 T-6 bare sheet where compliance in rubber press forming is a required characteristic, such as leading edge ribs where tight radius is a consideration. 6061 is about 70% strength of 2024, and is slightly more resistant to vibration, cracking and corrosion. We carry and use about 4 thicknesses. We use little of it over all.

for machining 2024 T35111 and 6061 are common, again with 2024 predominating. This is all unclad of course as stock machining material. We cold bend (and I mean REALLY COLD) annealed 0.625 x 6.00" 2024 T 3511 plate for nose wheel forks and then it ages back to original hardness

we also use sheet 7075 in 0 condition 0.063 thk, fold and form then heat treat for fabricated sheet metal components that require high strength and tensile qualities, but where we cannot use thick sheet 2024 or where we wish to use sheet and not machine/forge or cast. This is to minimise processes and inventory and streamline manufacture. Very little used.

other alloy used is 5052 H34 ( half hard) for easily formed components with little structural load bearing requirements and 5005 commercial grade for formed items where QC and structural loads is not a consideration, covers caps and cosmetics. Easily formed and cheap. Very little used.


Steels we use are 4130 4340 and KX 5160.

Airport Metals in Melbourne will supply to home builders in cut sizes, but best advice so far I can see is to engage with the experimental/home built community and see what sources they use, maybe even consolidate a shipment and reduce import costs, from specialist home built supplier in USA

if not committed to your own exact design, obtaining an existing kit from a supplier and modifying may make a big difference. From a kit provider like Vans every thing you need can be sourced from a single point at very moderate cost, including all tools and fasteners.

if set on your own design, you will need more then just supplies of 2024, and suppliers like aircraft spruce can do that in A one stop shop, in a cost effective manner.

do not expect to obtain 2024 easily. No one in Australia or in Asia more generally produces it, basically it all comes from the USA and Belgium where the major (airliner) manufacturing industries are co located. China may certainly have equivalent materials but developing a contact to supply small quantities of suitable ( specified, controlled and documented) materials will be an involved and convoluted exercise I am sure.

Here in Aus we import every piece of aviation grade materials,fasteners, all vendor components, cables, hose fittings, tubing, and so on ad infinitum, from the US, we turn it into a range of aircraft then export them around the world, many back to the USA from where about 97% of the aircraft by weight comes from in materials and components. Tedious in many ways but fundamentally necessary.

HD
 

danmoser

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Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
642
Location
Sandy, Utah, USA
..snip.
for machining 2024 T35111 and 6061 are common, again with 2024 predominating. This is all unclad of course as stock machining material. We cold bend (and I mean REALLY COLD) annealed 0.625 x 6.00" 2024 T 3511 plate for nose wheel forks and then it ages back to original hardness

we also use sheet 7075 in 0 condition 0.063 thk, fold and form then heat treat for fabricated sheet metal components that require high strength and tensile qualities, but where we cannot use thick sheet 2024 or where we wish to use sheet and not machine/forge or cast. This is to minimise processes and inventory and streamline manufacture. Very little used.

other alloy used is 5052 H34 ( half hard) for easily formed components with little structural load bearing requirements and 5005 commercial grade for formed items where QC and structural loads is not a consideration, covers caps and cosmetics. Easily formed and cheap. Very little used.

..snip..

HD
Good summary and advice, HD

just one thing to nittpick.. 2024-T3511 is not an "annealed" temper, as you seem to imply.

One of the misconceptions of some on this forum is that you can artificially age annealed sheet up to a full hard temper ..this is not true.. there is a work hardening effect, especially on the 3000 & 5000 series alloys, and to a much lesser extent with 2024 & 6061, and sometimes you go through a stress-relief heating process that is similar to artificial aging... but getting full 6061-T6 properties from an annealed 6061-O part is not possible without going through the full solution treat-quench-age process..

By the way 6013 alloy is gaining some use in aerospace manufacturing .. it is like 6061 with the great weldability, toughness & corrosion properties, plus it has the greater strength about the same as 2024.
6013 is usually sold in -T4 bare sheet, which is much easier to form than 2024-T3 alclad, and it can be aged to full -T6 temper after forming.. good stuff.
 
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