I'm in deep deep deep ****!

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Chlomo

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Oct 8, 2014
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120
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Seoul
Good day dear homebuilders!
It's always a great pleasure for me to imagine you all happily building away your dream airplanes(staring into space and making weird motion with your hands)!:)

I'll stop beating around george bush and explain my impossibility of affordable homebuilding(wipes away tears).
These few weeks I've been trying to find a domestic source for 2024-t3 alclad sheets that suit my design criteria.

THERE ISN'T A SINGLE SUPPLIER IN ENTIRE SOUTH KOREA THAT SUPPLIES AL2024 T3 ALCLAD SHEETS UNDER 1.76MM(0.07 in)!!!
Representatives outrightly denied any stock or production of thin 2024 sheets. I doubt if they ever heard of 'ALCLAD'.
And even those heavy heavy 1.76mm sheets may be of dubious quality since they weren't manufactured with aerospace application in mind. I was shocked to learn even KAI(manufacturer of T-50 Eagle trainer jet) imports aluminum sheets from abroad.

Now where do I turn to?
Aircraft Spruce? some 5000 miles far away? Shipping cost and import charges are prohibitive! You guys in north america don't know just how blessed you are!

:depressed


Government officials say they 'recognize the importance of prosperity of general aviation and the growing need to establish indegenous light aircraft production' yet somebody should tell them sheet aluminum might be a good place to start!
 
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cluttonfred

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Sorry to hear that, Chlomo. How about high quality wood? Even if imported aircraft-grade spruce and plywood are hard to come by, you could minimize the need by finding a local source of acceptable lumber and then importing only small amounts for specialized use (some plywood, perhaps aircraft spruce wing spars, etc.). The quantities required for even a very ambitious aircraft are not that big, and there are resources available for grading and testing wood for aircraft use. Finding out where musical instrument (guitar, piano, etc.) manufacturers get their wood would be a good start.
 

Chlomo

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Oct 8, 2014
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120
Location
Seoul
Use 6061 sheets?

Uhhhhhhh.... maybe 6061 will work too but I'd really like to get my hands on 2024!

By the way do you happen to know any good suppliers of 2024 t3 alclad in China? US is too far away but China...!
How do you source materials for your own project? I'm so curious!:ban:
 

kent Ashton

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Concord, NC
I feel certain that someone in China or Japan makes 2024 but the shipping costs of individual materials will eat you alive. For example, you find your sheets of aluminum then determine you need an 8-foot bender to make some rear spars, or rivets, pro-seal, fasteners, riveting tools, drills, bucking bars, clecos, clamps, etc.

Then along the way, you figure out that you should have also ordered aluminum angle and flat-stock to build spars, or you realize that the angle you ordered isn't long enough or the wrong thickness . . . and a bandsaw would really be useful to cut it. :)

I see from your avitar that you have a rather sleek design in mind but you have to crawl before you can walk. The easiest and cheapest route would be to design your airplane around materials you can get in Korea--tube and fabric maybe, or a kit shipped from the U.S. Good luck.
 

cheapracer

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I get most contacts through Alibaba, note that 95% are trading houses, sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not.

Look up your item - click on company name - company profile - industrial certification - and business type to verify manufacturer or trading house. I prefer to deal with the manufacturer direct.
 

bmcj

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Fresno, California
With the US-Asia trade imbalance, I suspect that most of the ships come to the US full and return to Asia empty. You may find that shipping from the US might be affordable if you shop around a bit.
 

Matt G.

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Nov 16, 2011
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1,266
Location
Kansas, USA
Have you looked into 7050 aluminum? It's strong like 7075, but less prone to corrosion and cracking.
No. It is better than 7075 for stress corrosion cracking, but static strength and fatigue properties are actually slightly inferior to 7075 for comparable product forms. I have never heard of the sheet form of it being used on any GA aircraft, nor have I seen it available for purchase on the open market, except for drops of 7050-T7451 plate at the local surplus place from the local aircraft manufacturers. If he can't find 2024 in his desired thickness, no way is he going to be able to find 7050...
 

BoKu

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With the US-Asia trade imbalance, I suspect that most of the ships come to the US full and return to Asia empty. You may find that shipping from the US might be affordable if you shop around a bit.
As I understand it, they arrive in the US full, and return about half-full of scrap iron and other raw materials.
 
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JamesG

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Feb 10, 2011
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Columbus, GA and Albuquerque, NM
Yup, and 'Merican & Canadian timber to turn into furniture to ship back again...

I bought a bag of frozen talapia one time at the supermarket. The label said the fish were from New Mexico (!?!) and processed in China. So... they had been raised on a fish farm somewhere in NM, frozen (hopefully). Shipped half way around the world. Thawed, cleaned,fileted, and sealed in plastic. Refrozen, and then shipped back half way around the world. Trucked from LA 3/4 the way across N. America where the sat waiting for me to buy them and put them in my own freezer for months.

Point being, you should be able to get 2024-t3 alclad even if you are in friken' Antartica (you just might have to order 100 tons of it though).
 

cheapracer

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With the US-Asia trade imbalance, I suspect that most of the ships come to the US full and return to Asia empty. You may find that shipping from the US might be affordable if you shop around a bit.
Doesn't quite work like that, I have shipped a number of things from Australia to China and regardless if the return container is empty or not, it costs the same amount of machine and man hours to handle it.

The only advantage is time, I can usually get on the "next ship".

Also containers are shipped everywhere, not just arrive and returned, but usually sit until some yard around the world starts to get low then sent there. Some of you have noticed at your companies etc that the shipping company isn't always in a hurry to come and get their container back from you.
 

cheapracer

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Uhhhhhhh.... maybe 6061 will work too but I'd really like to get my hands on 2024!
I don't know your design but consider this; If you used 2024 the most likely scenario is that you will have to go thicker than the calculations say to avoid buckling (real world stuff) as your sheets will be too thin. The moment that happens, which is most likely the bulk of the plane, you can use 6061 sheets without any structural performance loss.

Planes such as Sonex and Zenith are made from 6061 sheet probably for those considerationss and there's hundreds of them out there.
 

oriol

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Dec 31, 2009
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773
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Barcelona, Spain.
Chlomo,


The best you can do is contact and visit other local builders and pilots to have some first hand guidance and help (learning to fly and construction stuff) for your project. People in aviation tend to be friendly and helpful with other enthusiasts.

https://www.facebook.com/sportaviation.korea

If the shipping costs of aluminium are prohibitive for you, then you will have to adapt your project to your budget using for example a different material (wood, composite, tube and fabric...): aviation can get more or less expensive depending on what you want to fly.



Oriol
 

Chlomo

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Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
120
Location
Seoul
Yup, and 'Merican & Canadian timber to turn into furniture to ship back again...

I bought a bag of frozen talapia one time at the supermarket. The label said the fish were from New Mexico (!?!) and processed in China. So... they had been raised on a fish farm somewhere in NM, frozen (hopefully). Shipped half way around the world. Thawed, cleaned,fileted, and sealed in plastic. Refrozen, and then shipped back half way around the world. Trucked from LA 3/4 the way across N. America where the sat waiting for me to buy them and put them in my own freezer for months.

Point being, you should be able to get 2024-t3 alclad even if you are in friken' Antartica (you just might have to order 100 tons of it though).
(Sigh) Looked at alibaba, 2024 T3 Alclad is readily available in 0.2mm+ but MOQ at mostly 3~5 metric tons!
That for me is just as bad as ordering 100tons!
 

Chlomo

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Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
120
Location
Seoul
I get most contacts through Alibaba, note that 95% are trading houses, sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not.

Look up your item - click on company name - company profile - industrial certification - and business type to verify manufacturer or trading house. I prefer to deal with the manufacturer direct.
Now I agree with you it seems Alibaba sells aluminum with all sorts of certifications but how do I get past 'min order 5 metric tons'...? That's nearly $15~20k and I didn't even throw in shipping cost.
 
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