Composite Mobile Mini Factory - KITSTER

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by anvegger, Dec 3, 2016.

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  1. Dec 4, 2016 #61

    anvegger

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    The Manufacturer's Assistance Program is a different animal as we have discussed. Usually that is an independent A&P office residing next door to the KIT producer. They have everything in one location. Including some spare parts from the Vendor to get the plane ready ASAP. Outstanding business model. And it sure does work for 30 + years (We are talking about Lancair at this case Velocity is a bit less longer on the market - may be 20 years or so) And it looks like that

    View attachment 56670

    The problem is - the KIT producer and the Assistance Program are separated. And even they sharing the same customer - it may be and sure is a lot of (in lack of better wording) conflict of an interest.

    The KITSTER program is kind of the same method but originated from a single business point of view - from the KIT producer. And instead of a separation there is a union of client - producer - middleman type of a model. Client is the homebuilder. Producer is a R&D shop - the resource of a plane design and usage development. And our middleman is our KITSTER - a space and localized shop for that project to succeed. In my hangar 12 of KBVY the homebuilder Mr Angier Ames has erected my hangar (spending $200,000) just to get his 8 y.o. Lancair project completed. Wouldn't be easier for him just simply use the KITSTER instead?

    N4ZQ_07.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  2. Dec 4, 2016 #62

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    Many thanks Mr Little Scrapper I really appreciate your kind regards.
     
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  3. Dec 4, 2016 #63

    autoreply

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    I can think of at least 30 or 40 companies selling composite kits, including many with a "build-assist" program. Many of the available LSA's can also be built as a kit.

    As for the first certified composite airframe, that's 1961 or there about (The H301 Libelle or the Phoenix, not sure which one was first). By 1970 there were thousands of certified composite aircraft already and today, of the top of my head about 1500 GA composite airframes a year are delivered.

    I agree and Glasair has done that pretty well. Combining the build-assist and selling kits works much better.

    But in the end, it'll always be a lot cheaper (per builder) to outfit one location as a fast-build shop than to outfit many more mobile workshops.

    I've though a lot about my own design and kitting it (in the far future) with a fast-built stay at the factory here. Conclusions, being on this side of the pond isn't an obstacle. A ticket is under a grand and insignificant compared to the price of an airplane.
     
  4. Dec 4, 2016 #64

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    I am sort of collecting the history of GA composite production it would be nice if you sort of point me into that area. My sources are saying that

    Windecker Industries was an American aircraft manufacturer founded in 1962 as Windecker Research in Midland, Texas, by Leo Windecker, a dentist from Lake Jackson, Texas. In 1969, Windecker won Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification for the first-ever all-composite (fiberglass epoxy resin) airplane, the single-engine Windecker Eagle.
     
  5. Dec 4, 2016 #65

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    That was my initial impression as well. In fact the business failure with that manufacturing site of the production is way beyond the success stories. One more just came to my mind - Comp Air ... Total of 5 : Lancair, Europe, Glassair (1/2), Velocity, Comp Air, AircraftSpruce....(1/2) - not sure that i have seen any E-LSA Composite kits lately, may be Europeans liek Pipistrel . and 1500 composite frames a year is pretty good number. The beauty of the KITSTER topic could be also collected from the mobile repair shop. Saying that the first order that I might have would be from my local FBO that does not have the composite repair unit that is capable of fixing the damaged airframe locally.
     
  6. Dec 4, 2016 #66

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    I'm a bit cynical about this but I'm fully aware I'm frequently wrong. I'm stuck in the past but still intrigued about the technology.
     
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  7. Dec 4, 2016 #67

    anvegger

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    We are all in the same boat. And the river that we are pedaling our boat is called Time. It floats from the moment we are making our first decision to the very end of our last breath . Please don't limit your curiosity that makes you intrigued about the nearest future. And sure that future would be in the past very very soon . You will see that. ;)
     
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  8. Dec 5, 2016 #68

    BBerson

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    A big steel box in a subdivision probably won't work.
    I suggest the local airport.
    My friend built a hangar at an airport made with two Conex shipping containers for side walls (not sure how he did the roof).
    Any client is likely to need a semi-permanent hangar anyway, so why not sell a mobile shop /hangar made with two insulated shipping containers and a removable roof?
    I saw such a container hangar set up at Oshkosh 2015.

    Some airports will offer a 5 year lease for portable hangars. Much fewer permits for portable structures if they have a spot for it.

    I think the best way for the initial build would be two containers joined like a double wide mobile home for 16 feet open space (middle walls removed or folded up) When the airplane is built, the containers are separated 40 feet apart and a roof installed for the hangar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  9. Dec 5, 2016 #69

    autoreply

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    Maybe try google if somebody mentions a name?
    Australia, New Zealand, Germany, the UK, France, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Italy, Norway, Finland, Belgium and a dozen other countries have all had composite GA airframes for sale in the last decade, most kits as well.

    Google would also help you out with the rest of your questions.
     
  10. Dec 5, 2016 #70

    anvegger

    anvegger

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    At this time I am stacked with the US market primarily. Shame on me - being originally from Ukraine - I lost my out of state roots of European Aviation Market. Sure it will be coming out one day. Especially the real Target Market would be way more Oriental than I could think of. Dealing with Marketing Research - in the US - I only can apply my statistical estimate of OSH as an example where in the area of HomeBuilds RV and other All Aluminum KIT based collections resides. Many Amphibious planes are composites - that is also true, but not the entire plane thou . Definitely need to make a bit more deeply focused digging. Would keep you posted ;)
     
  11. Dec 5, 2016 #71

    anvegger

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    The KITSTER is not made of steel :) It is a Composite Mobile Mini Factory. It could be delivered as a single composite Container (Made In China)

    HTB1DJjtJpXXXXawXXXX760XFXXXJ.png

    or a collection of Composite Containers attached to a Central Unit (Made In the USA)

    photo-1024x768.jpg

    It also could be built from a set of Composite Ingredients delivered to any remote location (Made by You)

    [video=youtube;_fu80LiFlOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fu80LiFlOE[/video]
     
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  12. Dec 5, 2016 #72

    anvegger

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    The form of self-made Composite Panels is very re-usable. It is just simply a Temporary Hangar (sort of Collection of Containers) erected for your project specifically. Making that Hangar yourself and then ship it to another member of the program may reduce the cost of rental from the end-user's perspective. That is the case of a Shelter with a hundred-dollar Heater the autoreply is talking about . All the end -user needs : a few dozens of such panels and a $100 heater. The set of molds and the materials are coming to that location and fun begins

     
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  13. Dec 5, 2016 #73

    anvegger

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    In any case scenario the end-user could start his production process way before the current KIT producer can offer. Think of prototyping task from R&D shop. The end-user may get his first components at the same time the R&D shop is ready for the first flight. That is just the matter of the team effort: as soon as the use of MOLD-I is completed at the R&D shop instead of being stored in the storage area waiting for "production" it could be shipped with KITSTER container to the very first customer. And he (or she) could start his "prototyping" virtually at the same time with the R&D shop. Of cause it might be some deviation in the process, but you see the logic right? The KIT producer could utilize the MOLD-I immediately collectingg the rental revenue at the time of his own early stage development.
     

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