Cargo plane approach to the flying car

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by cluttonfred, Mar 8, 2013.

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  1. Mar 24, 2019 #81

    Dart

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  2. Mar 25, 2019 #82

    pictsidhe

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    Guys, you're looking at this the wrong way. Build a very light ground vehicle that is easy to squeeze into a plane. It won't need huge range, or a high top speed. Personally, I'd probably be happy with a folding electric scooter. That could be squeezed into a bomb. Errr, baggage pod.
     
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  3. Mar 25, 2019 #83

    Tiger Tim

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    Somewhere I have pictures of almost exactly that, except it was a 1/4 scale Hercules. It flew something like ten-ish hours then went up for sale, after which I assume it was parted out. Can you imagine what four synced VWs would sound like?
     
  4. Mar 25, 2019 #84

    BBerson

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    Two streamlined motorcycle "pods" (like bombs) could be pinned at the spar under each wing. Span loading doesn't add stress to the wing. No cargo doors needed.
     
  5. Mar 25, 2019 #85

    Sockmonkey

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  6. Mar 25, 2019 #86

    Victor Bravo

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    I had recently mentioned the Short Skyvan again as a good candidate for the flying RV camper on this or another HBA thread. The Skyvan has a high volume fuselage and you can easily have a rear ramp that can allow a small lightweight car, or a three-wheeler, or a couple of light motorscooters to just roll down the ramp, drive into town, and roll back in. Pretty darn hard to beat the Skyvan layout for the "cargo plane" flying car or the "flying motorhome".
     
  7. Mar 25, 2019 #87

    cluttonfred

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  8. Mar 25, 2019 #88

    Riggerrob

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    A few people have tried, but none succeeded (to certification) in building single-engined cargo planes like scaled down versions of Skyvans.
    Larger skydiving schools can fully-employ a 20-seater Skyvan, but medium-sized skydiving schools can only keep a 10-seater busy.

    The closest modern airplane is the turbine version of the Gippsland Airvan. I only have one jump from the 8-seater Airvan, but enjoyed its large cabin and large sliding door. Too bad, Airvan’s door sill is too high to gracefully unload a motorcycle.

    If the Skyvan is “the box the Twin Otter came in,” does that make the Airvan “the box the 206 came in?”?
    Hah!
    Hah!
     
  9. Mar 26, 2019 #89

    lr27

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    There was an objection that seaplanes would need to have gas carted to them, but boats don't necessarily have that problem. If your plane could use auto gas, any marina ought to be a fuel source. I wonder if there are more marinas or more airports? I'm guessing the former.
     
  10. Mar 26, 2019 #90

    spaschke

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    Since I am building an amphibian I did some research into that. I have found there are fewer marinas with gas than there are airports with gas in the US. But if you consider flying, say, around the world, there are much more marinas with gas than airports with gas.
    If I were to fly around the world and do some ocean crossings, can I enter a country as a boat, at a marina, or do I have to go to a port of entry airport? Many port of entry airports are not close enough for me to make it to them but a marina would be. Ferry tanks are one solution, but not an attractive one. I would be overweight on such a trip with 2 people, luggage, ocean crossing safety equipment, full tanks, AND a ferry tank of only 30 gallons.
     
  11. Mar 26, 2019 #91

    BBerson

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    Access to marina pumps is usually difficult with a seaplane.
     
  12. Mar 26, 2019 #92

    Sockmonkey

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    I think we're running up against the "need to define the mission first" problem.
     
  13. Mar 26, 2019 #93

    cluttonfred

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    I can hear the thread creak, I mean creep, from West Africa. ;-)
     
  14. Mar 27, 2019 #94

    Victor Bravo

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    Last I heard the thread was about a cargo plane not a cargo seaplane. Cargo seaplanes are perhaps just as valid of a concept, but would be the subject of another thread... the "21st Century Convair R3Y Tradewind", whereyour personal hovercraft and a pair of jet-ski's are carried inside the family flying yacht :)
     
  15. Mar 27, 2019 #95

    BBerson

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    The most common cargo plane where I live is a Beaver on floats. Because hauling air cargo where trucks can go isn't cost effective.
    No mention that seaplanes are excluded in post one.
    Regarding 6 place cargo planes, it was asked:
    What does everyone think? What are some ways to tackle such a miniature cargo plane to bring along your.."

    Beavers often carry impressive external loads on the floats struts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  16. Mar 27, 2019 #96

    Sockmonkey

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    My two cents is still something like the Lysander lifting tail conversion.
     
  17. Mar 27, 2019 #97

    cluttonfred

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    Some inspiration....

    When the folks MIles Aircraft created the M.57 Aerovan as a military/civilian light transport back in 1945, there were plans to create a whole range of short-range freighter types. The unbuilt single-engine M.61 would have been a very big aircraft (94' wingspan!) using an obsolescent 1,500 hp Wright Cyclone or alternatively a Bristol Hercules. Sources: Miles Aircraft since 1925 by Don Brown and Miles Aircraft - The Wartime Years: Production, Research & Development during World War II by Peter Amos.

    Miles M.61

    Wooden construction with a metal boom. Wright Cyclone chosen because of their availability and previous experience of installation on the Monitor and Martinet designs. Not ordered by the Air Ministry and remained a project.

    Engine: 1 x Wright Cyclone GR2600 A5B or 1 x Bristol Hercules XI
    Wing Span: 94 ft 0 in
    Length: 28 ft 6 in
    Wing Area: 1,100 sq ft (inclusive stub wing)
    Empty Weight: 11,290 lb
    Crew & Equipment Weight: 1,170 lb
    Fuel & Oil: 2,800 lb
    Cargo Weight: 8,740 lb
    All Up Weight: 24,000 lb
    Wing Loading: 21.8 lb /sq ft
    Power Loading: 15.0 lb / hp
    Cruising Speed: 164 mph (50% power at 8,000 ft)
    Range: 1,000 miles
    Take-off Run: 1,350 ft
    Freight Compartment Floor Length: 19 ft 0 in
    Freight Compartment Floor Width: 6 ft 6 in
    Freight Compartment Floor Width: 5 ft 6 in

    m61.jpg M.61.JPG
     
  18. Mar 27, 2019 #98

    cluttonfred

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    Another source of inspiration might be the powered conversions of WWII assault gliders.

    Waco PG-1/2/3 (Northwestern PG-2A shown)
    WACO-PG-2A-Powered-Glider---Serial-No--514037---interior--9-Jan-1946---MIKAN-No--3583915.jpg WACO-PG-2A-Powered-Glider--9-Jan-1946---MIKAN-No--3583916.jpg
    GAL.58 Hamilcar X
    1434611619112.jpg 1434611619316.jpg
    Or the massive, six-engine Messerschmitt Me 323 Gigant
    Messerschmitt_Me323_gigant_and_sdkfz_7_halftrack.jpg Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-596-0367-05A,_Flugzeug_Me_323_Gigant.jpg
     
  19. Mar 27, 2019 #99

    Victor Bravo

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    The OP may not have mentioned any exclusion of seaplanes, but the OP was also thinking about a "flying car", presumably indicating a cargo style plane that was able to be a mother ship to hold the road vehicle inside. I do not think that this thread was intended to be aboout simply a homebuilt airplane that could carry cargo... because there are already several of those to choose from.
     
  20. Mar 27, 2019 #100

    cluttonfred

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    Yes, as the OP I can confirm that VB is right on the money, the idea here was looking at aircraft and suitable road vehicles that would allow you to carry your ground transportation as cargo, from a mini-Skyvan carrying a small car to a much smaller aircraft carrying an electrically-boosted bicycle or two. Obviously, that means you can use that cargo capacity (weight and volume) for other purposes -- passengers, cargo, camping space, etc. -- but the essential point was the option of driving/riding away at your destination with your own wheels.
     

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