Buy it now or later ?

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

MadProfessor8138

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
796
Location
Ekron,Kentucky
I have been putting in quite a bit of effort researching EFIS & EIS options to see what is available...and there are some pretty neat systems out there now.
But one issue keeps nagging at me.....since I can see both sides of the argument I'm having a hard time deciding which side of the coin to call.
So,I thought I would ask for opinions to help me decide which path to follow.

I still have 2 - 3 years before my aircraft is complete.....that information is relevant to my following questions.

Nothing is getting cheaper when it comes to flying so..... should I go ahead and buy the systems now before they increase in price ?
But in 2- 3 years they may be outdated and unsupported.
-
OR
-
Should I wait until my aircraft is complete and ready for the particular systems and then purchase the items so I get updated technology but at a possibly increased price ?

Kevin
 

wsimpso1

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
6,518
Location
Saline Michigan
The equipment keeps getting better, the costs more reasonable in real dollars. Waiting until you are ready to install makes the most sense to me, and my project is in a similar state.
 

don january

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,780
Location
Midwest
If it is of good quality and very reasonably priced and your not too far from the need I'd say buy and place in your pile of to do goodies.
 

MadProfessor8138

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
796
Location
Ekron,Kentucky
I agree that the offerings keep getting better every year but their prices also seem to be increasing as well.....from what I have observed.
Just a few examples of price increases that I've noticed :

1. GRT EIS 2000 with sending units: $550 - $600 new...that display with sending units use to run around $275 - $325 new.
People want new prices for used equipment now days so buying used is pointless.

2. Rotax C or E box : $2k new & $1,200-$1,400 used.....the C box use to be around $300 for a good used one.

3. Rotax 377,447,503 engine : $1,500 - $4,500 for a used one now...those engine use to be under $1k all day long for any of them.

4. Etc,etc,etc.....

I like the Talos setup for EFIS that runs on a tablet but I've been watching it for the past year and the price has gone up.
I would buy it now but I'm worried that in 3 years when I need to install it...the tablet will be outdated and I will need to purchase new upgrades to run with the new tablets that will be available in the future.

I also like the AG6T for EIS....but once again I'm wondering if in 3 years someone will develop the software to run the engine monitoring on the tablet alongside the EFIS.
So buying now before the prices increase may put me in a position that something bigger and better has come along and now I've got a unit setting there that wont be used.

Realistically,I've got 3 years before my plane is ready for these systems.......but I also have been collecting parts,supplies and equipment,when i find a good deal,for future use.
I just dont want to spend money needlessly......by purchasing items that wont be used or by waiting on items only to find that I could have gotten a better deal if I had acted earlier.

Double edged sword......

Anyone else have these issues or am I just reading too much into things.....?

Kevin
 

Aesquire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,402
Location
Rochester, NY, USA
Parts for out of production engines and engines keeps going up. That seems to be a buy it now item. The chance of it being obsolete in 2 years is remote. Unless you're waiting for an about to come out engine, and think it won't be another Delta Hawk where it won't be for actual sale in your lifetime instead of next year, next year, next year...

That seems to be the trend in promising new engines. Also there are some engines like the Big Bad Twin from Culver/Valley Engineering that "I could have bought and had ready to install, but is no longer available." Which requires a rethink on engine choices that may delay completion by years.

electronics seems to get cheaper in features for the dollar viewpoint, but more expensive overall as time goes by. Plus the probability that regulations might change before you fly. That's a big unknown. While unlikely that anyone rational in charge would abandon the millions spent on ADBS-xxx it could be forced by circumstances and it's an election year in the U.S.

The odds on 2021 FAA being told that "safety is the absolute priority" or " we want to eliminate the carbon and lead footprint of horribly polluting private aviation" is unknown and not a subject for this forum to erupt on.

Another wild card is the possibility that a State actor, like some mythical land where viruses close cities, might make GPS based gear obsolete by shooting satellites down. Or even a decision to change standards to the 2025 Integrated Driving Information Observation Technology system that uses the location of electric cars wifi signals for navigation.

Those two scenarios are highly unlikely. But so was the assassination of an obscure Arch Duke starting a World War.
 

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
3,862
Location
capital district NY
I agree that the offerings keep getting better every year but their prices also seem to be increasing as well.....from what I have observed.
Just a few examples of price increases that I've noticed :

1. GRT EIS 2000 with sending units: $550 - $600 new...that display with sending units use to run around $275 - $325 new.
People want new prices for used equipment now days so buying used is pointless.

2. Rotax C or E box : $2k new & $1,200-$1,400 used.....the C box use to be around $300 for a good used one.

3. Rotax 377,447,503 engine : $1,500 - $4,500 for a used one now...those engine use to be under $1k all day long for any of them.

4. Etc,etc,etc.....

I like the Talos setup for EFIS that runs on a tablet but I've been watching it for the past year and the price has gone up.
I would buy it now but I'm worried that in 3 years when I need to install it...the tablet will be outdated and I will need to purchase new upgrades to run with the new tablets that will be available in the future.

I also like the AG6T for EIS....but once again I'm wondering if in 3 years someone will develop the software to run the engine monitoring on the tablet alongside the EFIS.
So buying now before the prices increase may put me in a position that something bigger and better has come along and now I've got a unit setting there that wont be used.

Realistically,I've got 3 years before my plane is ready for these systems.......but I also have been collecting parts,supplies and equipment,when i find a good deal,for future use.
I just dont want to spend money needlessly......by purchasing items that wont be used or by waiting on items only to find that I could have gotten a better deal if I had acted earlier.

Double edged sword......

Anyone else have these issues or am I just reading too much into things.....?

Kevin

Wait.
 

MadProfessor8138

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
796
Location
Ekron,Kentucky
blane.c ..........what reasoning do you have for that viewpoint ?
Do you think prices will come down on items in the future ?

Kevin
 

blane.c

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
3,862
Location
capital district NY
I doubt the prices will come down. But electronic goodies instead of reducing prices add more features/ease of use. So you will likely benefit from products that will give you more options for use or maybe if we are lucky the interface will be simpler and/or more intuitive. Sometimes they get lighter or use less power as well.
 

MadProfessor8138

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
796
Location
Ekron,Kentucky
Thanks for the input everyone......
I've been doing a lot of research and a lot of thinking on the subject for the past few months.
I think I'm going to wait for 1 particular reason.....I'm pretty disappointed with the systems that are offered at this point.
It seems that everyone has the mindset to add unnecessary bells and whistles to their offering and have moved away from the basic needs of people flying ultralights & simple aircraft.
This is just my opinion on the available products and I could very well be wrong.

1. Aircraft Extras AG6T ....
Pros : cool idea and I like the simplicity.
Cons : small business,$260 for unit & you still need to buy senders,unit has to be programmed for your individual application because it is not plug & play.

2. GRT EIS 2000....
Pros : it's been around forever and it works
Cons : it's been around forever and they have done nothing to make it more modern,cost will run around $600 for unit & senders on a Rotax 2cyl.-2strk.

3. Experimental Avionics.....
Pros : the EFIS & EIS have it all in one unit or individual units,basic design that works.
Cons : Oleg started the design by challenging himself to build it for under $100 and he did.
I'm not sure if the kit that I saw in the website store was for just EFIS or if it is EFIS & EIS but the kit was over $500 + taxes + shipping + senders + odds and ends components to finish the project.
I would guesstimates that his $100 design is going to run close to $800-$1,000 by the time it is finished.
And you have to build the unit or units then download the program and get the thing to work.

4. Talos EFIS....
Pro : neat and simple design that runs on a tablet and seems to be pretty intuitive using.
Cons : this started out around $550-$600 for the interface box and is now close to $1,000.
It is also just EFIS with no EIS.

5. Garmin.....
Pros : very nice
Cons : pretty **** $ expensive.

6. Many other designs....
Pros : nice designs
Cons : cost as much if not more than my whole airframe & engine.

I think I'm going to wait until I'm close to finishing my airframe and actually need the systems before I revisit the topic again....I'm frustrated at this point.
Maybe within the next 2 years someone will offer an EFIS & EIS that can be ran on a tablet and the product not cost $1,500 - $2,500 for the interface.

Why has everyone moved away from the simple needs of basic plain jane aircraft that are still using 2-strokes and are designing & building systems that are suited & priced for more advanced aircraft running various 4-strokes ?
The poor ultralight guys are beginning to be left behind.....unless they pay the price for systems that are more than they need for their application.

Kevin
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
10,828
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
I think I'm going to wait until I'm close to finishing my airframe and actually need the systems before I revisit the topic again....I'm frustrated at this point.
That is what I would do. It avoids the obsolesce issue, leaves you open to new developments, and allows you to change your mind about how you will use your airplane, and, therefore, how you will want it equipped.

There may be new products available in a few years, plus, some prices may be lower.


BJC
 
Top