# Boeing - Design Issues...

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#### PMD

##### Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I thought this was an aviation forum.
the point I am trying to make is that aviation (especially Boeing in this case) is suffering from the same malady as many other publicly traded companies. People who acquired their money from the Casino Capitalist activities of Wall Street are slaves to the whole world of finance (GE being the poster child for how to make a LOT of money while running the product side of the company into the ground...and I mention that because the finance solution to making airplanes with massive problems is not to hire an airplane builder, but to bring in another finance guy...and one from GE at that).

BTW: lest you think I am piling only on Boeing and the US marketplace, the Euroweenies have their prallel problems: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/airbus-corruption-settlement.html

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
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Bribing foreign leaders to get contracts? Who do they think they are? Lockheed?

(Coughs in direction of F-104)

#### Toobuilder

##### Well-Known Member
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Log Member
Let's not forget that Northrop also has done the "paper sack full of cash" to try win a contract (F-20). Douglas too. No sense picking on one when ALL are guilty.

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##### Well-Known Member
Although, one could argue that bribes is more of a desperate management action (assuming you are where they aren't the norm), while Boeing & GE are running on a Screw Tomorrow management track, where this years performance based payment package is the ONLY management consideration.

#### Himat

##### Well-Known Member
So production of the 737 MAX has halted. Boeing is diverting employees to other projects, but their contractors have announced thousands of layoffs.

And with just a little bad luck, the subcontractors are all gone when they are to reopen the assembly line. To get the production going again will then take time, time for Boing’s customers to buy planes elsewhere. If they need them then. The current corona “flu” may decrease air transport demand significant a period. That could be one more reason for the demise of the Boing 737 line.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Although, one could argue that bribes is more of a desperate management action (assuming you are where they aren't the norm), .....
And where would that be? In some places, it is just much more subtle. Take Congress and defense contracting, for example.

BJC

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
HBA Supporter
Airbus has actually been very professional about this. Their statement was that it doesnt help anyone when this happens.

They are already at maximum capacity anyways and booked for years, so they arent going to benefit anyways.

Well, besides their A220. Sales are way up for that.

#### plncraze

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Don't say"bribe. " Say "lobbying" and follow those stories. The Harvard Business School 's Report on Competitiveness said lobbying was corrosive due to the fact that the average voter would not understand how it weakens the effectiveness of their vote. Boeing requested that the FAA leave them alone and they got it. In the same way the pharmaceutical industry requested the DEA leave them alone. Boeing was lobbying to keep the FAA of their back as recently, I believe, as six months ago.

#### aeromomentum

Don't forget that Airbus was just hit with a $3.5 BILLION dollar fine. #### Doggzilla ##### Banned HBA Supporter Yes, bribing politicians to get around regulations is called "Regulatory Capture". Its very common. I once reported a company who was breaking multiple regulations... and the agent who contacted me from their Nebraska branch actually defended the criminals and said things like "You cant drag their good name through the mud like that". He also refused to take the evidence and then tried to claim I had not presented it. Turns out that he personally knows them and they even mentioned him personally by name on their facebook page. They didnt even try to hide the relationship. Well, the company suffered multiple accidents and fatalities, as well as a significant number of disabled survivors. (They also got caught hiring employees who were legally disqualified due to violent criminal convictions) They got hit with$90 million in judgements from just one of the families, who suffered 3 of their 5 family members being heavily disabled from one of the accidents. And that was just one family out of the many. There were quite a few court cases that resulted in tens of millions of dollars of awards against them. Each.

The agency in question is run by the wife of a Republican Senator, and she owns a major company in the industry she is in charge of. Cant get much more corrupt than that.

##### Well-Known Member
This about covers it:

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
HBA Supporter
That sure would be good for our "Crashes in the News" thread, for sure.

More bad news for Starliner. They must review... a million lines of code because of the two malfunctions.

This means they have completely lost their lead to SpaceX, which is ready to enter service except for some paperwork being processed.

It seems like they just cant get a break.

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
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They are saying now that if the malfunction had not happened the spacecraft would have experienced a second bug that likely could have destroyed the craft on reentry.

When they were looking at the software after the initial bug they found that the programming for the separation of the two modules was faulty and that they would likely have collided if the first bug had not brought their attention to the second bug.

##### Well-Known Member
The thing that gets me is that Boeing then still want to fly astronauts to the ISS on the next flight!!

#### litespeed

##### Well-Known Member
Boeing.

IF its Boeing we should not be going.

They seem determined to push forward on the boards plans come hell or disaster.

Pretty sad for NASA and the taxpayer- you can be sure they will be paid a motza even if it never works.

Bar killing a bunch of astronauts, the funding will still flow, but even bigger amounts.

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
The thing that gets me is that Boeing then still want to fly astronauts to the ISS on the next flight!!
Chopper Girl, want to be an astronaut?

HBA Supporter
Oh no you didnt

#### Doggzilla

##### Banned
HBA Supporter
While inspecting mothballed 737s Boeing found debris in the fuel tanks.