Automotive Engine Permission

Discussion in 'General Auto Conversion Discussion' started by Mohanakannan, Oct 6, 2019.

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  1. Oct 8, 2019 at 8:22 AM #21

    Mohanakannan

    Mohanakannan

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    Yes, I want to use it for production if I did a good job on the demonstrator (Prototype). It is an undersquare engine and loves to revv low, I'm looking for 5500 peak rpm. I'm thinking of remapping the ECU and leave the engine stock.
     
  2. Oct 8, 2019 at 8:24 AM #22

    Mohanakannan

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    Are you sure? they keep saying the names of these auto makers without their permission?
     
  3. Oct 8, 2019 at 8:25 AM #23

    Mohanakannan

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    Good one, Thanks!
     
  4. Oct 8, 2019 at 2:53 PM #24

    pictsidhe

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    BSFC will be bad at those revs and the piston speed it will result in. It vibrates a lot at those revs, too.. You should look for an engine that will run at a much lower piston speed. A stock car ECU is a poor choice for an aircraft.
     
  5. Oct 8, 2019 at 3:53 PM #25

    Turd Ferguson

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    Yes. I'm sure.
     
  6. Oct 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM #26

    Mohanakannan

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    Thanks for your advise, Yes
    Thanks for the advise. I am just a bigginer with 4 stroke fuel injected engines with ECUs, My project requires 130hp peak power, I was in the initial opinion that if we revv low and try to get this power we might have a higher BMEP which stresses the piston and the cylinders more in the stock setup, I drive motorcycles allot and have assumed that 5500rpm is not much, and now your advise makes me think again. I have planned to use G4 Atom ECU for the project, some ECU engines used for aero applicatons uses 2 ECUs for redundancy and kindly advise me on that.
     
  7. Oct 9, 2019 at 12:23 AM #27

    pictsidhe

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    I would suggest looking for a 160-180hp engine and derating it. Toyota make great engines, but they aren't too happy near max power and revs. Running near max torque is a better idea. Life and fuel consumption will be much better. Piston speed is the great equaliser aong with BMEP.
    There was a supercharged 1zz, using a turbo instead of a supercharger at 4000rpm might be worth investigating. Stick to the stock 7psi boost.
     
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  8. Oct 9, 2019 at 3:09 AM #28

    pfarber

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    A company can refuse to sell to you as long as its not one of the protected reasons (race, sex, veterans status etc). And if you wanted to design a product around their component it could cause you trouble as they can refuse to sell their product to you individually or in bulk. They could refuse warranty service and they could refuse repairs if there is a 'used for intended purposes clause' or a 'fitness' clause.

    But once you legally obtain it, there is nothing they can do to you. The only trouble you can get into is if you use their name/logo in publications. And even then you can legally say that your plane uses a Subaru engine, but you couldn't market it in a way that would dilute their trademark. You could even put Subaru logo's on the plane. But you would start to infringe if you tried to say 'Powered by Subaru' or some such.

    Is it easier to simply get permission? Sure. Do you need it for personal use? NO. Do you need it for business use, no, but it would make life easier.
     
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  9. Oct 9, 2019 at 3:51 AM #29

    D Hillberg

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  10. Oct 9, 2019 at 9:10 AM #30

    Mohanakannan

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    Thanks for your advise, I just did some searches and found that the 1ZZ engine with stock setup cranks out 97hp at 4500 rpm and 112hp at 5500. Just a 15hp power gain with an increase in 1000rpm and the engine produces it's max torque some where around 4500 rpm. So I would do some research and find modifications to improve the power to 130hp and keep the rpm around 4.5k. If this modification could be done using ECU remapping alone it would be great. On the other hand I have bad experiences with engine modifications, my last engine modification worked well but consumed over an year! The 160-180hp engines are available but they do that power around 6000 to 7000rpm range.
     
  11. Oct 9, 2019 at 9:13 AM #31

    Mohanakannan

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    Good one.. Thanks for the information.
     
  12. Oct 9, 2019 at 9:19 AM #32

    Mohanakannan

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    You must be Don Hillberg then, you are one of the pioneers of Homebuilt helicopters. I have read allot about you in Redback aviation, it was very inspiring to see your projects and your designs. I love wooden rotorblades and enjoyed the hand drawn Gyrodyne rotor blade plans that was on their vwebsite. May I know how your current projects are going on
     
  13. Oct 9, 2019 at 3:37 PM #33

    Wanttaja

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    *Again*, though, that's the law in the US...it's not necessarily the same in India, where Mohanakannan lives. I suspect India's laws are based on that of the UK.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  14. Oct 9, 2019 at 3:56 PM #34

    Russell

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    Pfarber, these are the two stickers that I have on my plane. The difference is I am not trying to market it. Do you think I am on the ragged edge by saying “Powered By Subaru”?

    Sticker - Fuselage.JPG Sticker - Cowl.JPG
     

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  15. Oct 9, 2019 at 5:49 PM #35

    pfarber

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    I missed that he's not in the US. And honestly, why ask foreigners about the laws in a country they don't live in???

    This thread should end with 'talk to a lawyer in your country, we have no idea'.
     
  16. Oct 9, 2019 at 6:03 PM #36

    pfarber

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    Do * I * thinks its a problem? No. You are stating a fact, evidently for non-commercial use. That gives you protections from copyright and trademark.

    Its been a long held legal opinion that statements of fact are not copyright-able. And copyright and trademark/trade dress disputes have to have a nexus to commerce to even trigger them. So if you say that your airplane is powered by Subaru, you are stating a fact. The use of their logo in a non-commercial activity is also not a problem. But say you sell sponsorship panels on your plane. Well, now it could appear that you are using the logo in the enhancement of your business. In that case I would either look up Subaru's marketing material guidelines or get a letter from Subaru covering your use of their logo.

    This is an interesting read:

    https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/adcreative/ops/guides/Subaru_Branding_Guidelines.pdf


    I print my own t-shirts with logos of the companies I like, Fender, Peavey, Epiphone, Chevy, and a few others. For personal, non-commercial use I am golden. But if I start to sell them... yeah, that's the problem.

    Just remember, at any time some corporate lawyer can send you a cease and desist letter threatening all sorts of things, its up to you if you want to fight it, or obey it.
     
  17. Oct 9, 2019 at 7:55 PM #37

    proppastie

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    so how do you fight it?......send back a your own letter ? (my letter is bigger than your letter)
     
  18. Oct 9, 2019 at 8:28 PM #38

    tcrbaker

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    You may want to look at the new Ford Dragon 1.5 liter all aluminum engine. They are the base engine for the 2020 Escape. In the Escape it is fitted with a turbo, in other application overseas it is normally asperated. I hope that Ford will make this motor available as a crate engine. Turbo charged it maker about 185 up. Looking at the up and torque curves a normal asperated engine will make around 100 up and 100 ftlb at 3000 rpm. I hope to get an engine out of a wreck so I can play with it. The engine is a little over square, but does have a balance shaft. If direct drive is contemplated the thrust bearing is located between cylinder 2 and 3. Tim
     
  19. Oct 9, 2019 at 9:11 PM #39

    pfarber

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    Well if its for personal use you can claim 'fair-use' as a defense. One of the 'trades' a business has to make in order to obtain copyright/patent protections is that in some cases, your logo/IP can be used by other in very specific cases royalty free.

    For example, I can look up the patent for a widget, and then copy that widget exactly. BUT I can't call it a 'Chevy widget' as its not.. and the name is not part of the patent, that's copyright/trademark. Yes its confusing. But the general guideline is Personal use: go nuts. Not much they can do.

    Fair use has 4 tests that you 'score' to judge the validity of the claim. The wiki article is a pretty good place to start.

    For business? You really don't. Commercial use is pretty one sided in favor of the copyright/IP holder. If you want to have a patent fight or fight a copyright claim, you can... its a great way to make a little pile of money out of a big pile of money.

    Lots of fan web sites run into this issue. There was a Ford Mustang web site that printed T-shirts and sold them to the members. It used the Ford logo and images of Ford products, without permission. Ford sued them and won.

    Volkswagon of America went after bugauto.com As BUG was a registered trademark of VW.

    "Second, BUG®, VOLKSWAGEN® and VW® are all duly registered trademark in the United States, "

    "(4) by no later than January 17, 2005 transfer to VWoA the registration for the domain name bugauto.com, and agrees to sign all forms necessary, to provide other necessary information and documentation, and to send such electronic mail messages as may be necessary to accomplish the transfer of the domain name;"

    Since bugauto.com was a commercial site, they got nailed.
     
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  20. Oct 9, 2019 at 10:23 PM #40

    D Hillberg

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    I was turbine powered in 1993 still turbine powered in 2019.
     
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