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cheapracer

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I would suggest looking for a 160-180hp engine and derating it.
Yes.

On a presumtion the OP is looking at 1ZZ engines on Alibaba as they are made in China next door to India, then a 2.0 Mazda 'L' series would be the prefered choice.

The bulletproof Mazda 'L', 2.0 and 2.3, the same engine as the Ford Focus/Mondeo 'Duratech' (joint venture between them), are the lightest in their class and I'm surprised not looked at more often for conversion.

Next step up, and back to Toyota, is their 2.4 2AZ (common Camry engine) made in China.

The BMW 1.6 turbo, the engine in the Mini, is being made in China now also.
 

Mohanakannan

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Feb 6, 2013
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Do * I * thinks its a problem? No. You are stating a fact, evidently for non-commercial use. That gives you protections from copyright and trademark.

Its been a long held legal opinion that statements of fact are not copyright-able. And copyright and trademark/trade dress disputes have to have a nexus to commerce to even trigger them. So if you say that your airplane is powered by Subaru, you are stating a fact. The use of their logo in a non-commercial activity is also not a problem. But say you sell sponsorship panels on your plane. Well, now it could appear that you are using the logo in the enhancement of your business. In that case I would either look up Subaru's marketing material guidelines or get a letter from Subaru covering your use of their logo.

This is an interesting read:

https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/adcreative/ops/guides/Subaru_Branding_Guidelines.pdf


I print my own t-shirts with logos of the companies I like, Fender, Peavey, Epiphone, Chevy, and a few others. For personal, non-commercial use I am golden. But if I start to sell them... yeah, that's the problem.

Just remember, at any time some corporate lawyer can send you a cease and desist letter threatening all sorts of things, its up to you if you want to fight it, or obey it.
Do * I * thinks its a problem? No. You are stating a fact, evidently for non-commercial use. That gives you protections from copyright and trademark.

Its been a long held legal opinion that statements of fact are not copyright-able. And copyright and trademark/trade dress disputes have to have a nexus to commerce to even trigger them. So if you say that your airplane is powered by Subaru, you are stating a fact. The use of their logo in a non-commercial activity is also not a problem. But say you sell sponsorship panels on your plane. Well, now it could appear that you are using the logo in the enhancement of your business. In that case I would either look up Subaru's marketing material guidelines or get a letter from Subaru covering your use of their logo.

This is an interesting read:

https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/adcreative/ops/guides/Subaru_Branding_Guidelines.pdf


I print my own t-shirts with logos of the companies I like, Fender, Peavey, Epiphone, Chevy, and a few others. For personal, non-commercial use I am golden. But if I start to sell them... yeah, that's the problem.

Just remember, at any time some corporate lawyer can send you a cease and desist letter threatening all sorts of things, its up to you if you want to fight it, or obey it.
Thanks for the detailed information, I'll get some advise from a company lawyer in my country before using the name of the engine maker. But I guess for now I can use it on the prototype and avoid mentioning that it has a specific engine on it, possibly remove the identity if any on the engine to avoid potential issues.
 

Mohanakannan

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Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
I missed that he's not in the US. And honestly, why ask foreigners about the laws in a country they don't live in???

This thread should end with 'talk to a lawyer in your country, we have no idea'.
I remember some one advised me to use an engine that is more than 15 years old. Legally I may not get into trouble if I go with a 15 year old engine and advertise that it has such a engine on it.
 

Mohanakannan

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Feb 6, 2013
Messages
42
Location
Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
You may want to look at the new Ford Dragon 1.5 liter all aluminum engine. They are the base engine for the 2020 Escape. In the Escape it is fitted with a turbo, in other application overseas it is normally asperated. I hope that Ford will make this motor available as a crate engine. Turbo charged it maker about 185 up. Looking at the up and torque curves a normal asperated engine will make around 100 up and 100 ftlb at 3000 rpm. I hope to get an engine out of a wreck so I can play with it. The engine is a little over square, but does have a balance shaft. If direct drive is contemplated the thrust bearing is located between cylinder 2 and 3. Tim
Good one, Thanks for the advise. I am looking for a naturally aspirated engine because I need a stable power curve, At high revs the turbo kicks in at some point and the power curve will no longer be linear, and I am also looking for a larger displacement engine for 130hp hoping that the stress and BMEP will be low enough for a better reliability.
 

Mohanakannan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
42
Location
Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
Yes.

On a presumtion the OP is looking at 1ZZ engines on Alibaba as they are made in China next door to India, then a 2.0 Mazda 'L' series would be the prefered choice.

The bulletproof Mazda 'L', 2.0 and 2.3, the same engine as the Ford Focus/Mondeo 'Duratech' (joint venture between them), are the lightest in their class and I'm surprised not looked at more often for conversion.

Next step up, and back to Toyota, is their 2.4 2AZ (common Camry engine) made in China.

The BMW 1.6 turbo, the engine in the Mini, is being made in China now also.
Thanks for your advise, I am actually thinking of using 2.4 2AZ if the weight difference is not much with 1ZZ. I don't get the weight values properly for these engines, I also see that the 1.8 corollas that came after 2012 are powered by 2ZR engines which weighs only 97kg compared to 1ZZ which weighs around 120kg and have better power values. I want naturally aspirated engine with no valve lifters or variable valve and that's why I prefered 1ZZ, Just for simplicity .
 

cheapracer

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Thanks for your advise, I am actually thinking of using 2.4 2AZ if the weight difference is not much with 1ZZ. I don't get the weight values properly for these engines, I also see that the 1.8 corollas that came after 2012 are powered by 2ZR engines which weighs only 97kg compared to 1ZZ which weighs around 120kg and have better power values. I want naturally aspirated engine with no valve lifters or variable valve and that's why I prefered 1ZZ, Just for simplicity .
1ZZ most certainly do NOT weigh 120 kgs.

You are looking at a fully dressed engine weight for car installation that includes air conditioning and power steering pumps, and flywheel with clutch.

I did have the 1ZZ weight some years back, I do know for fact the the long bare engine is 5 kgs heavier than a Suzuki G13BB. Based on that, you might get a weight of under 90kgs with PSRU.

You are wrong about the modern power curve of a modern turbo, most of whom get high boost levels from just 2000 rpm onwards, Google dyno graphs of cars with which ever engine you consider..
 

tcrbaker

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Jun 27, 2014
Messages
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Location
New Orleans
Good one, Thanks for the advise. I am looking for a naturally aspirated engine because I need a stable power curve, At high revs the turbo kicks in at some point and the power curve will no longer be linear, and I am also looking for a larger displacement engine for 130hp hoping that the stress and BMEP will be low enough for a better reliability.
The Dragon 1.5l is used normally asperated in some cars in India. Tim
 

Mohanakannan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
42
Location
Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
T
1ZZ most certainly do NOT weigh 120 kgs.

You are looking at a fully dressed engine weight for car installation that includes air conditioning and power steering pumps, and flywheel with clutch.

I did have the 1ZZ weight some years back, I do know for fact the the long bare engine is 5 kgs heavier than a Suzuki G13BB. Based on that, you might get a weight of under 90kgs with PSRU.

You are wrong about the modern power curve of a modern turbo, most of whom get high boost levels from just 2000 rpm onwards, Google dyno graphs of cars with which ever engine you consider..
Please check this website. This is where I got the weight values, but I was already in the opinion that this figure may not be real because I have weighed some 1.5L engines in the past none of them exededed 90Kg. And thanks for your advise on modern turbo I shall check them out.
http://mywikimotors.com/toyota-1zz/
 

Winginitt

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Apr 5, 2019
Messages
177
First you need to consider what weight the airplane can tolerate. Then you need to investigate what engines are commonly available or at least reasonably available in India. One of the simplest proven combinations is a V6 Chevy. It might be that a Rover engine could meet your needs. Any Corvairs or Subarus ? Lots of info on them....but are they available to you?

The thing that is always glossed over when talking about piston speed is the fact that there are a lot of other components that get higher stresses when operating at elevated rpms. Its not JUST piston speed that needs to be considered. All things considered, probably the best choice is a Corvair stroker engine. Low rpms, no redrive, and lighter weight. Question is whether you can aquire one to build or just buy one already built and have it shipped. Everything is documented in build manuals.
 

pictsidhe

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Jul 15, 2014
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North Carolina
I believe that the ZR is 2kg lighter than the ZZ. The ZZ has VVT, though since it's a hydraulic sprocket, it clould be fairly easily removed and replaced with a solid sprocket. The ZR is slightly shorter stroke, I think it has dual VVT, so two sprockets to remove. Do not underestimate the difficulty of a getting a PSRU to work reliably. It could be worth looking at direct drive, maybe a Rover V8? They are very light for their capacity.
 

cheapracer

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I believe that the ZR is 2kg lighter than the ZZ. The ZZ has VVT, though since it's a hydraulic sprocket, it clould be fairly easily removed and replaced with a solid sprocket. The ZR is slightly shorter stroke, I think it has dual VVT, so two sprockets to remove. Do not underestimate the difficulty of a getting a PSRU to work reliably. It could be worth looking at direct drive, maybe a Rover V8? They are very light for their capacity.
I don't understand the constant promotion in the forum to remove VVT? They give little trouble if ever, the failure mode won't affect what you are doing other than idle badly and maybe lose 5 to 10 hp, not a game changer or danger while you are flying, and they produce the best, smoothest hp at the rpm you select. Leave sleeping dogs lie.

Rover 3.5 running form, no starter, is 150kgs, I have personally weighed them. I believe the 3.9 are 160.
 

pfarber

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Feb 21, 2019
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Product Material Disclosure
© 2013 Subaru of America, Inc. Printed in USA. All rights reserved. Contents
may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission
of publisher.

I guess we are both in trouble.
Actually no. As I said, 'Fair Use' has exceptions to copyright. If a company puts information on their web site, in full view of the public, its pretty much giving you permission to read it (implicitly). Now can you download it, print out and distribute? No, that would be (wait for it) Copyright Infringement.

Also I only linked to the page, I didn't distribute anything.

Is copyright law a mess? Yes. Thank's to Disney. Before Copyright would expire after 14, then 28 years. Now its LIFE OF THE AUTHOR + 70 years, or 120 years from first publication. Disney's lawyers are already trying to lengthen that.
 

pfarber

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Feb 21, 2019
Messages
782
Location
Pennsylvania
I don't understand the constant promotion in the forum to remove VVT? They give little trouble if ever, the failure mode won't affect what you are doing other than idle badly and maybe lose 5 to 10 hp, not a game changer or danger while you are flying, and they produce the best, smoothest hp at the rpm you select. Leave sleeping dogs lie.

Rover 3.5 running form, no starter, is 150kgs, I have personally weighed them. I believe the 3.9 are 160.
Some person will always chime in 'I heard some guy somewhere had a problem'. Yeah, VVT is on just about every new car sold, and its just not an issue. Yet many of the VVT haters would swap a cam. Um, VVT is essentially swapping a cam, electronically.

VVT on my 2004 F150 is a mess (bad design) but there are aftermarket parts that solve it, or you can simply lock it out. But that's a 15 year old design.

Today VVT gives torque when and where you need it and improves GPH. All good things. I am not sold on the need for aftermarket ECUs. Factory units work fine. Most ECUs have programmers (well, the Chevy ones do) and you can do a lot of tuning.. including simply turning off VVT.
 
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