3D Printer build

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by FritzW, Dec 18, 2016.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 5, 2017 #61

    BobbyZ

    BobbyZ

    BobbyZ

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Cape May NJ USA and Varna Bulgaria
    I totally agree and I was surprised too even though composite props have been around for ages.
    I really wanted to get a printer early on but I'm glad that I waited as now is really the time to get on board if you havent already.The quality that can come from a decent hobby printer these days is quite amazing and it's only going to get better.They have really turned the corner from cool toy to functional tool for just about everything.
     
  2. Jan 5, 2017 #62

    weasel

    weasel

    weasel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Brooksville
    So. now we scale the print bed up to 80 inches by about 12 inches and print Catto out of business?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  3. Jan 5, 2017 #63

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I think 3D printing today is wear 8086 computers were at back in the old days, powerful enough to do some real work but we had no idea what they would lead to.

    5 years from now we'll look back and laugh that we thought it was pretty cool that you could print a boat propeller or a flap handle for a Waiex :gig:
     
    JLT, cheapracer, BobbyZ and 1 other person like this.
  4. Jan 5, 2017 #64

    proppastie

    proppastie

    proppastie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,662
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Location:
    NJ
    next stage is wire feed so to speak, feed a continuous piece of CF tow, with the plastic, one would need a cut off if the plan is to have breaks, however I would think with a little innovation in design and software one would not have to break the feed except at the end.
     
  5. Jan 5, 2017 #65

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    613
    Location:
    Uncasville, CT
    You mean like this thing?

    https://interpromodels.com/markforged/

    I work with this company for prototypes and the MarkForged makes some really nice parts. And the printer, while it is expensive for the individual, isn't so expensive compared to many professipnal printers that are multiple tens of thousands per unit.

    While I wouldn't use the parts for building aircraft primary structure, secondary structures would be plenty viable.
     
  6. Jan 5, 2017 #66

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,672
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house
    Fritz, do you have information on the internet anywhere about your CNC router? I know there is a thread here but is that all you have uploaded?
     
  7. Jan 5, 2017 #67

    proppastie

    proppastie

    proppastie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,662
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Location:
    NJ
    Well yes but I would think the idea would be to print structural parts, the plastic not a good fit?...so squirt two part epoxy instead.
     
  8. Jan 6, 2017 #68

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I've got a CRP4896 from CNC Router Parts. I put the electronics together "a la carte" on ebay. They've got kits on ebay now that really simplify that. I got the biggest air cooled spindle I could find. ...and I control it with Mach3

    I watched a bunch of "how to" videos on youtube, put it together, and it's been running like a Swiss watch for 5+ years :)
     
  9. Jan 6, 2017 #69

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,668
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    A fiber laying machine (orienting and snipping short fibers) could build up structural parts.
    Or a wire feed welder could make structural aluminum parts.
    I don't know how they do it, but the Dec. Popular Science has a motorcycle with a 3D printed aluminum frame.
     
  10. Jan 6, 2017 #70

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,672
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house
    what kind of things have you chopped out with it?
     
  11. Jan 6, 2017 #71

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    20170105_211112_resized.jpg ...countless (hundreds) of "pretty things": tea boxes, jewelry boxes, wine racks, wine caddies, rocking chairs for little kids, toys etc. (picture is a jewelry box that was rejected because of the chip in the lid).

    10 or 15 VP-1 and VP-2 ply sets (ribs etc.) per the plans and modified.

    2 or 3 sets of Headwind ribs.

    A set of Pietenpol ribs that I used the machine to scan an antique rib then cut out a new set.

    IMG_3101.jpg 2013-10-09 16.06.47.jpg an unfinished, all CNC'd, Texas Parasol(ish) fuselage.

    The fuselage jig for the Neirrh (I've got a regular XL jig in the works for one of our HBA members)

    A crazy modular workbench idea I've been playing with.

    20170105_211144_resized.jpg A table for the printer (see post above)

    A quick build wood wing


    And lots of other stuff I can't think of off the top of my head :gig:
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
    Turd Ferguson likes this.
  12. Jan 6, 2017 #72

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    If you know the properties (strengths and weaknesses) of the material your using and you understand the limitations of the processes your dealing with, and you design accordingly, there's no reason why you couldn't print parts for the primary structure. ...even with today's printers and filaments. S#it loads of testing needs to be done first but all the elements are in place.
     
    proppastie likes this.
  13. Jan 6, 2017 #73

    proppastie

    proppastie

    proppastie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,662
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Location:
    NJ
    Are you able to match hole machine for the Texas Parasol
     
  14. Jan 6, 2017 #74

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,672
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    Location:
    Upper midwest in a house

    That's some cool stuff!!
     
  15. Jan 6, 2017 #75

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    903
    Location:
    Warren, VT USA
    Both exist. Look up "direct fiber placement" or mTorres. Spent the last year prepping to install one of these hanging around the best in the world at it, impressive stuff. There is also already a combo welding CNC milling machine. They are megadollars right now but it all exists and it is out of pretty much existing technology. I've seen demos of rocket and jet engine unobtainium parts being made on these machines. Welds up thin wall as it goes and then mills it down to finish dimensions in one setup. Pretty astounding. Lastly I have seen a demo of a laser sintering machine that can directly print metal parts. Again, expensive but other than some interesting thermo it is a pretty straightforward machine. Only NASA projects seem to be able to use the technology but it is out there. Wonder if and how long it will take for a homebrew MIG and mill machine will come to be. Most successful robotic welding rigs I have seen are MIG. Another thing that is always out there is just printing wax for lost wax molding. That can be done right now at home easy. Melt and pour are the hard part but that is just money and space.
     
  16. Jan 6, 2017 #76

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    613
    Location:
    Uncasville, CT
    OK lemme say that yes, you could make primary structure with that machine.

    But the caveat you point out, on the butyl loads of testing, is why I'd say, for now even in the Markforged with carbon insertion, i would start with what i call secondary structueres (but, maybe isnt that. I mean things that are easy to inspect, monitor, and replace if need be. Stuff like maybe trim tabs/mounts/inges, instrument panel brackets, etc etc.) And part of that is to address the testing, to get a feel for how it behaves on real parts where the traditional method is well understood as a baseline; but its also simply because in what I've seen fron that machine is it is a slower process and a more expensive process than probably even regular CF layups per volune, and the part volume one could print isn't particularly large. But the point that the tech is by no means theoretical is important. I do agree that an airplane can use 3d printing of the primary structures but it will likely require specialty machines to do a good monocoque type fuse. On the other hand could we make gussets and build up the Texas Parasol using lengths of square cut angle and a box full of specialty brackets? I'm sure you can do it. But i's it the best application?

    I'm sure there are solution's to all this and more.

    Now with the CF I'm not sure how well it will scale to big applications as it exists today. You'd wanna make a thicker skin in places, maybe infuse multiple strands of CF in a pass. I am sure something will be doble but it's a matter of being such a specialty application to make a machine that does it effectively, the viability is the key.

    I'd love to work on this more. If I thought i could affordsbly 3d print light and strong warbird fuselages I'd be well along the way. I think it will come but the costs to develop the tech is beyond what I can muster and the jump from assembling a cnc according to tried and true methods vs pushing state of the art is not in my grasp yet. Someday soon I hope.
     
  17. Jan 6, 2017 #77

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    11,668
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Location:
    Port Townsend WA
    Yeah, the future will be interesting.
    I am listening to an audio book called RADICAL ABUNDANCE by Eric Drexler. All about the nano-future, where almost everything could be built from individual atoms.
    The end of Homebuilding... or maybe the beginning.
     
  18. Jan 6, 2017 #78

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    No problem. The only trick is holding down the .020 sheet while you cut the gussets.
     
  19. Jan 6, 2017 #79

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    903
    Location:
    Warren, VT USA
  20. Jan 7, 2017 #80

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    ...I don't get it. Why wouldn't you just layup fabric on the mold instead of weaving it on the mold?


    I think I'd get a lot more use out of a small/homemade one of these:
    (there is a small 3D printed version here but the video is pretty bad)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019

Share This Page

arrow_white