Whing Ding and Souricette

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Tinworm

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Jan 31, 2021
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Hi Everyone
I am new. I fly flex and fixed wing microlights and gyroplanes (in the UK). I have a Bensen Gyro-glider in process of being restored and I am rebuilding a Chaser single seat flexwing trike.

I have long wanted to build a classic fixed wing microlight. I have spent a lot of time studying plans for a Minimax, a Mignet derived Butterfly and the Hovey Whing Ding with wing warping, and I think it is going to have to be the Whing Ding that I build.

In the meantime I am fascinated by the Souricette ULM, as a friend has one.

Does anyone here have either Whing Ding or Souricette experience?
 

Tinworm

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Jan 31, 2021
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I appreciate that. But the plans recommend that every builder builds it based on their own weight and calculating the position of the CG based on the pilot being in place when the aircraft is weighed, as the pilot will weigh more than aeroplane itself. It is a bit of a tricky bit of retro-calculation
 

Dana

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It's not the CG location VB is talking about. Despite all the magazine illustrations showing it soaring high in the sky, the Whing Ding is barely able to fly the length of the runway in ground effect. There are reasons most of the early ultralight designs aren't built any more, it's the same reason people aren't building 1903 Wright Flyer replicas for everyday sport flying.
 

TFF

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As a ten year old, the Whing Ding out of Popular Mechanics was something my mind could wrap around. Now, it’s under developed. It’s a pioneer airplane. The only video I know of is of crow hops. I hear it had done figure eights over desert low to the ground. More wing and more horsepower and hope it never hits the ground. If I remember right it’s turned more with rudder as the warping for roll was not the most powerful.
 

Chilton

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Jersey, channel islands
There used to be a Whing Ding at Shoreham about 25 years or so back when I weighed about 110 soaking wet and even at that it was not going to get out of ground effect. The suggestion back then was that it needed to launch from a hill like a hang glider and would then sustain under power.

With the SSDR regulations now there is no reason to waste time and money on something like the Whing Ding which was built to the original UK 115 lb empty weight rules when you can have something capable of actual flight.
 

Tinworm

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The late Robin Morton built a Whing Ding under the auspices of the LAA in the early 1980s, and until he died he was marketing the plans he used back then through GSAL. They included all the required Section S modifications.

His Whing Ding is known to have flown.

It is a minimum aeroplane, of course, but that is all it was ever meant to be, but with lighter, more powerful engines (from paramotoring), I think that we can improve the power to weight issue.
 

Tinworm

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Chilton, I am unfamiliar with the UK 115 lb empty weight rules, but if you are referring to the Sub 115Kg rules, they long post-dated the Whing Ding
 

Doran Jaffas

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Jun 25, 2019
Messages
412
Hi Everyone
I am new. I fly flex and fixed wing microlights and gyroplanes (in the UK). I have a Bensen Gyro-glider in process of being restored and I am rebuilding a Chaser single seat flexwing trike.

I have long wanted to build a classic fixed wing microlight. I have spent a lot of time studying plans for a Minimax, a Mignet derived Butterfly and the Hovey Whing Ding with wing warping, and I think it is going to have to be the Whing Ding that I build.

In the meantime I am fascinated by the Souricette ULM, as a friend has one.

Does anyone here have either Whing Ding or Souricette experience?
I own the Hovey Wing Ding ll many years ago. Feel free to contact me regarding this to start a private conversation. I'd be happy to fill you in on some things.
 

Groundhog Gravy

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Apr 20, 2019
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I own the Hovey Wing Ding ll many years ago. Feel free to contact me regarding this to start a private conversation. I'd be happy to fill you in on some things.
I think a lot of us would really appreciate it if that conversation could go on here; there's a lot of talk about the WDII from people who haven't had one, and your experience could be a good corrective to all the (mis)information out there.
 

Gregory Perkins

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There was a guy in England that built a Whing Ding that was scaled up to a larger size and weighed close to 250 pounds. It was said to be a reasonably nice airplane. In the USA a guy
converted the Whing Ding to a mono wing and enlarged it and gave the plans to Bob Hovey and Hovey called it the Baby Beta in deference to the already existing mono wing Beta Bird.
There is no reason either the Baby Beta or the scaled up WhingDing couldnt be really good fliers but you would have to do your own scaling up on the Whing Ding unless that guy mentioned previously in this thread (Morton)## sb2sm.jpg$ Builder Pose1447-b.jpg$++11.JPG as selling the plans for his scale up could provide a set. I have photos of both planes and plans for the Baby Beta. Just to mention, there are videos on youtube ( or used to be) of some guys in Australia flying original scale WhingDings and they were doing far more than ground effect flights with payloads greatly exceeding the
empty weight of the planes. Amazing testimony to the efficiency of that little 121 pound airplane but at the same time shows that if a 121 pound plane could do what is shown, a properly scaled up to 254 pound Ultralight should fly like gangbusters !
 

Victor Bravo

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WOW ! Those photos are of the "Sky Baby", the designer is/was a nice guy named Paul Rokowski from somewhere in PA. I had bought a set of plans for that airplane many years ago, and lost them or threw them out.

It was a Whing Ding scaled up slightly and made into a wire braced monoplane, which is obvious in the photos. He told me it flew reasonably well, but I have never see n one, flown one, or known anyone else who had flown one.

I have not seen those photos in years!
 

Tinworm

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Jan 31, 2021
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Morton's notes, as I say, indicate that having made the tail feathers attached to the tail boom, it should be weighed, and the moment calculated including the in-situ weight of the pilot to gain the "empty" weight (as the pilot will weigh more than the empty weight of the airframe and engine alone), so as to establish the centre of gravity and to balance the seat forward of the origin. That necessitates moving bulkheads etc forward and allows for putting the larger fuel tank between spars and above, rather than behind, the centre of gravity.

This beefing up is not regarded as a problem from a weight point of view because paramotor engines now develop twice the thrust of the McCulloch, while weighing less.

I regard the Hovey as an experiment which is ongoing...one of power to weight. 50 years ago it was borderline (just as it was at Lympne one hundred years ago) But as technologies and materials develop, the Hovey's become more viable. Anyone can build a heavier, faster aeroplane with room for carrying golf clubs. But building a very light machine which can fly is a fantastic achievement.
 

Doran Jaffas

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Jun 25, 2019
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412
There used to be a Whing Ding at Shoreham about 25 years or so back when I weighed about 110 soaking wet and even at that it was not going to get out of ground effect. The suggestion back then was that it needed to launch from a hill like a hang glider and would then sustain under power.

With the SSDR regulations now there is no reason to waste time and money on something like the Whing Ding which was built to the original UK 115 lb empty weight rules when you can have something capable of actual flight.
There is a YouTube video of a Wing Ding an actual flight around the pattern. I talked to Bob Hovey and asked him what he used for an altimeter when I had mine. He said he used a 75 ft tape and when that left the ground he was high enough. He might have been serious lol.
 

BJC

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There is a YouTube video of a Wing Ding an actual flight around the pattern. I talked to Bob Hovey and asked him what he used for an altimeter when I had mine. He said he used a 75 ft tape and when that left the ground he was high enough. He might have been serious lol.
75 feet is a long way to fall.


BJC
 

nestofdragons

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Jun 8, 2016
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397
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Near Antwerp, Belgium
Hi Everyone
I am new. I fly flex and fixed wing microlights and gyroplanes (in the UK). I have a Bensen Gyro-glider in process of being restored and I am rebuilding a Chaser single seat flexwing trike.

I have long wanted to build a classic fixed wing microlight. I have spent a lot of time studying plans for a Minimax, a Mignet derived Butterfly and the Hovey Whing Ding with wing warping, and I think it is going to have to be the Whing Ding that I build.

In the meantime I am fascinated by the Souricette ULM, as a friend has one.

Does anyone here have either Whing Ding or Souricette experience?
Hello,
i can tell you that Daniel Dalby, known for his Pouchel and variants, is working on his edition of the Butterfly. It probably will become something similar to his Pouchel, but with a midmounted engine.

2021-02-03 Pouchel.jpg
This is the Pouchel. Imagine the same but with engine in middle and prop blowing over rear wing for his new variant. No news yet in his website about this new variant. But he did mention it on the Flying Flea related groups. Not sure if the plans will be in English. www.pouchel.com The website of the APEV


Not sure if the Wing Ding is a real high flyer. Read something about it having very small wing area. Don't know the details. Sorry.
 

nestofdragons

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Jun 8, 2016
Messages
397
Location
Near Antwerp, Belgium
2021-02-03 Butterfly 01.png
I foudn this picture of the current project of Daniel Dalby. He wants to call the airplane BUTTERCHEL. Combination of Butterfly and Echelle (french word for ladder (original Pouchel was made out of ladders. He had to change the design in this remakable design-style as the ladder-manufacturor nearly sewed him))
 

Doran Jaffas

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Jun 25, 2019
Messages
412
I think a lot of us would really appreciate it if that conversation could go on here; there's a lot of talk about the WDII from people who haven't had one, and your experience could be a good corrective to all the (mis)information out there.
I remember when the beta came out. I spoke with Bob Hovey about it. he was incredible human being with a tremendous amount of information and also and aeronautical genius of his time. I personally think the beta was the better of the two though I never had a chance to fly it. I would build one today if I knew where plans could be had. The power plants of today are so much better that even the wd2 would be a very viable ultralight in today's world. As far as scaling it up goes that could be done and the wing warping the second to none as far as control goes. The wright brothers used the same type although again with today's materials things are much better. Sorry it took so long to reply to some of these I really didn't know it was going to go this far and I'm happy to tell people what I know about the design as I'd be interested in putting one of those two together myself. I currently own and fly equipment Tailwind which most of you know about.
 

103

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May 2, 2015
Messages
365
Location
Wauwatosa WI
I have recenlty stumbled on to the work of Victor Serda leveraging long span loading and to fly with low HP the single seat Canguro might make part 103 the two seat flies well with one seat filled and OK with a small passenger
Those of you on FB click here to see the single seat constructions looks like a wood hopper wing format with a king post Othersise a few videos can be seen here of ElCanguro
 
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