The Real Accident Rate

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by ToddK, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. Sep 17, 2019 #1

    ToddK

    ToddK

    ToddK

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    Mike Patey's highly public crash in Draco, admission of culpability, and desire for aviators to "learn from his mistake" has resulted in an overwhelming amount of sympathy, applause and encouragement. Today on many of the FB aviation groups that I am a member of, there have been an unnerving number of similar admissions made by other aviators all in the vein of "helping people to learn from mistakes". Most have been the usual issues: fuel starvation and poor airmanship. I don't think I am wrong to wonder based on the content of these posts, how many of these accidents went un-reported, and what the real accident rate is for experimental aviation is.
     
  2. Sep 17, 2019 #2

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    I know of accidents that have not been reported. I'm in the camp where the fewer people that know the better.
     
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  3. Sep 18, 2019 #3

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

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    I would expect that almost all fatal accidents are reported, but a substantial # of non-fatal accidents (and in fact, a VERY large percentage of accidents/incidents in which there was no injury at all at non-towered fields) go unreported. I would expect this to be the case with TC'd aircraft as well, given human nature.
     
  4. Sep 18, 2019 #4

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

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    I have my name on a ground loop report and I'll say that proudly.

    I'd wager unreported is the majority. I cant count the number of bad landings I've seen that resulted in obvious damage that got hangared and never saw a report filed.

    But the FAA and transport Canada don't exactly make it a reasonable process either... Why is a groundloop an incident? (Assuming the non Draco you roll away change your shorts, when pride is the only thing damaged)
     
  5. Sep 18, 2019 #5

    Pops

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    I ground looped a Smith Mini-plane when I was a student pilot but no damage other than grass stains. Mostly on the prop and nose bowl and leading edge of the lower wings when I went off the side of the grass runway and out in a hay field that was ready to cut. Good wash job took care of that.
     
  6. Sep 18, 2019 #6

    TFF

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    I know insurance is not going to pay if no FAA report. I know a crop duster try to do that. I also know a war bird guy drag his plane off the runway when the gear collapsed. FAA came out to investigate. He told them to mind their own business. Not quite that nice. Shut the door on them. They went back to the office. I know another plane to make the news with off field landing. It was an LSA plane but he told the FAA people it was an ultralight and they went away.
     
  7. Sep 18, 2019 #7

    MadRocketScientist

    MadRocketScientist

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    On the other hand there has recently been some helicopter crashes here in New Zealand where minor incidents were not reported, another incident then led to a fatality. If the problem was known and an AD had been issued there would be a few more people alive today. Often having good statistics on accidents and incidents is what keeps everyone a lot safer. Knowing why a plane crashed, even if pilot error, can help others from making the same mistake.

    I know of several accidents by aircraft flown from the local airfield that were never reported.
     
  8. Sep 18, 2019 #8

    Dana

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    At the grass roots level, I think the general attitude is to not tell the government anything they don't have to know, and an even stronger desire not to have the newscritters sticking cameras in your face. Besides, are we always completely sure that we're squeaky clean when the FAA starts digging through our logbooks? Often best just to quietly push the wreckage into the hangar as quickly as possible.
     
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  9. Sep 18, 2019 #9

    pictsidhe

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    There needs to be encouragement to report accidents, not penalties.

    My last place of work boasts about its low accident rate. That was partially achieved by employing daily temp workers and 'not needing them' if they had a mishap. We actively hid mishaps if possible.
     
  10. Sep 18, 2019 #10

    plncraze

    plncraze

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    The FAA supposedly tried to avoid criminal action in order to get the truth from people. Honest stats are the result if you can do this.
     
  11. Sep 18, 2019 #11

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

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    Then again, after getting my insurance renewal... Zoiks. Maybe it's not the federal government people fear.

    Almost tripled - reasoning... I put near 600 hours on the Mooney last year. What's the bet it doesn't drop to a third next year now that I'm past 6 months without flying it as it's still stuck in bureaucratic hell... :rolleyes:
     
  12. Sep 20, 2019 #12

    Twodeaddogs

    Twodeaddogs

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    As an inspector of homebuilts and classics, I always ask my owner / builders if anything has happened the aircraft since I last saw them. I had one guy say that nothing had happened his Champ until I noticed a bodged repair and then I got a mumbled "eh..oh, yeah, I had a bit of a tip...". I walked away. A while later, I heard that he had actually lost control landing in a gusty x-wind and went up on his back. He made some very dodgy field repairs and flew it home. Another genius had a prop strike landing at a grass strip, not realising that he was being filmed on several camera phones and was duly posted on the Internet. He rang me to come and do his Permit Inspection not long after and of course, I asked the question. He duly avverred that the aircraft was sound and then I mentioned the video. Silence. A long silence. "Call me back after the inspection for shock-loading has been done", says I. Quite why owners think I'm going to risk my license, my reputation and my house on letting incidents and accidents go by, unnoticed, is beyond me.
     

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