# Raptor Composite Aircraft

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#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
That is why this aircraft has hi T/O speed(over 90 knot's)
Which is incredible. It's going to take 100 kts to fly out of ground effect and a ref speed of near 120 kts. I've flown jets with numbers lower than that.

#### Doggzilla

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
That is why this aircraft has hi T/O speed(over 90 knot's) with only one person on board and little fuel in tanks. I wonder, what kind T/O speed this aircraft will have with 4 persons on board and fuel for 3000 miles flight? Like airliner?
Years ago I took a Cessna 172 to Detroit and had to use maximum throttle in a dive just to avoid being overtaken by the airliners. Even in a dive I could see an airliner slowly passing me on my left side.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Of all the issues being discussed here, the 3200 pound weight of this first prototype may be the least troublesome. Most prototypes are different than the production versions.

If the airplane shows itself to be controllable and safe, then making a lighter one is a fairly straightforward task... hire a guy like BoKu or Autoreply to figure out a proper layup/bagging/infusion/whatever schedule, and figure out the correct material thicknesses. This alone should create a significant weight reduction.

Once that is done and the airframe is within reason, an assessment can be made on whether the wing area is enough to support an airplane with X engine and Y reduction drive and Z additional components.
Valid post, and has oft been mentioned that a 2nd pre-production craft is going to be an absolute must do.

But the time and expense is a major setback, about another 2 years from whenever #1 flies in some sort of controllable manner, to when #2 will see airtime.

#### Alessandre

##### Active Member
I understand the Peter wish when he used a car diesel engine, economy at the operation and aquisition cost, but I think the great responsible by the heavy final weight can be this engine with all the components, I think even reducing the lamination thickness the engine still macking the aircraft heavy. he has almost 500lb only with the dry engine core, I can't imagine the total weight of that monster with the PRSU, constant speed propeller and engine mount. I think he could use a gasoline lighter v6 or v8 for the prototype.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Valid post, and has oft been mentioned that a 2nd pre-production craft is going to be an absolute must do.

But the time and expense is a major setback, about another 2 years from whenever #1 flies in some sort of controllable manner, to when #2 will see airtime.
Not to mention the need to find new suckers investors.

BJC

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Years ago I took a Cessna 172 to Detroit and had to use maximum throttle in a dive just to avoid being overtaken by the airliners. Even in a dive I could see an airliner slowly passing me on my left side.
I understand. One time doing an IRS to about 400' in a hard rain , flying a C-172 at WOT in the approach because of a Heavy close behind and tower ask if I could go faster and then ask if I could turnoff at the first intersection. I made it. Something huge went by me in the rain as I stopped.

#### Rod Schneider

##### Active Member
I understand the Peter wish when he used a car diesel engine, economy at the operation and aquisition cost, but I think the great responsible by the heavy final weight can be this engine with all the components, I think even reducing the lamination thickness the engine still macking the aircraft heavy. he has almost 500lb only with the dry engine core, I can't imagine the total weight of that monster with the PRSU, constant speed propeller and engine mount. I think he could use a gasoline lighter v6 or v8 for the prototype.
When he first brought it up to Cherokee for final assembly, one of the guys who did a lot of work on it mentioned that the engine package, firewall aft, was about 1,000 lbs...........

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Nukes. Little itty bitty nukes, with little itty bitty football size steam turbines to turn the propeller.

The Manhattan. That's what we'll name the airplane.

Interior trim levels will be the Trinity, Tinian, and Kwajalein options.

Optional larger and smaller baggage pods (Fat Man and Little Boy options).

After seeing that Volta Volare website... ours will feature a Board of Directors including Einstein, Oppenheimer, and Teller. Director Emeritus will be Von Braun.

Somebody get me a graphic artist, and a kid to do the website with a great big Click Here to Reserve Your Delivery Number button, and somebody get me that "Who's Who in Silicon Valley" magazine article... stat!

#### Alessandre

##### Active Member
When he first brought it up to Cherokee for final assembly, one of the guys who did a lot of work on it mentioned that the engine package, firewall aft, was about 1,000 lbs...........
He estimated 2300lb of empty weight!!! If he switch the engine for a 0-540 he can eliminate more than 500lb only changing the engine taking the empty weight to 2700lb, much better... He could study a new version for diesel after this prototype with more wing span and sell the first kits for 0-540. Would be a solution.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
Not to mention the need to find new suckers investors.
IF it flies, likely the "milestone", grabs the Escrows to keep him going for a bit.

#### flywheel1935

##### Well-Known Member
Lets get back to basics here, Buying an Aircraft designed and built (poorly) by an IT guy would be the same as buying a hi-tech IT system
designed and built by Carroll Shelby/John Delorean/Gordon Murray etc etc, If I had $200.000 burning a hole in my back pocket I'd want turnkey, not a big pile of bits and bobs, in fact$200,000 buys a fair amount of airline tickets,

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
IF it flies, likely the "milestone", grabs the Escrows to keep him going for a bit.
Where does it say that? An escrow deposit would be worthless if true.
Most likely the deposits will slowly be returned by the bank, I assume. Same as Icon.

##### Well-Known Member
And the YouTubers question why Justin wore a Nomex suit.
I have never performed a test flight without a nomex suit...as well as a parachute, and in some cases, a flotation collar and extraction harness!

#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
Lets get back to basics here, Buying an Aircraft designed and built (poorly) by an IT guy would be the same as buying a hi-tech IT system
designed and built by Carroll Shelby/John Delorean/Gordon Murray etc etc, If I had $200.000 burning a hole in my back pocket I'd want turnkey, not a big pile of bits and bobs, in fact$200,000 buys a fair amount of airline tickets,
With Peter being an IT guy we are getting an IT product..... release the product as fast as possible to gain market share and fix all the bugs later! Not that Peter thinks there are any bugs. I'm convinced Peter believes he is building model #0001. He has never mentioned a second prototype that I know of and I have no idea where the money would come from to do that.

#### Geraldc

##### Well-Known Member
He estimated 2300lb of empty weight!!! If he switch the engine for a 0-540 he can eliminate more than 500lb only changing the engine taking the empty weight to 2700lb, much better... He could study a new version for diesel after this prototype with more wing span and sell the first kits for 0-540. Would be a solution.
0-540 weighs 438lb dry and Audi weighs 425.5 lbs(Audi introduces lighter, more efficient 3.0L V6 turbodiesel, can cut consumption by 20%) so only difference is redrive.

##### Well-Known Member
Ulta. Definition: the place where my fiance goes to on a regular basis

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
You are thinking of it wrong. You are thinking of how would I ever get 200k to buy one, or it’s not how I would spend my money. The person buying has the 200k. What they are wanting is a 400k plane for 200. Think you already have a SR22 or a Malibu but want a Meridian or a turbine conversion P210. More for your money. Think cut 45 minutes to the beach out of a three hour flight. It’s how everybody I know who has that level of money in a plane think. Can I get more for the same amount. It’s how I see the RV10 vs SR22. You can pay to have your RV10 built and still save 200,000 over a new Cirrus. It’s an economics game at that level.

##### Well-Known Member
Nukes. Little itty bitty nukes, with little itty bitty football size steam turbines to turn the propeller.

The Manhattan. That's what we'll name the airplane.

Interior trim levels will be the Trinity, Tinian, and Kwajalein options.

Optional larger and smaller baggage pods (Fat Man and Little Boy options).

After seeing that Volta Volare website... ours will feature a Board of Directors including Einstein, Oppenheimer, and Teller. Director Emeritus will be Von Braun.

Somebody get me a graphic artist, and a kid to do the website with a great big Click Here to Reserve Your Delivery Number button, and somebody get me that "Who's Who in Silicon Valley" magazine article... stat!
Hey! Stop copying our business model!!

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Ulta. Definition: the place where my fiance goes to on a regular basis
Is that to get her Ulta ego adjusted?

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