# Quality ANC hearing protection for $40 or or Compound ANC for$400

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#### 103

##### Well-Known Member
Jonathan Baron who owns Shark Aero introduced a Low Cost Aviation ANC Concept in a Follow up Video he built a case for protecting your ears.

Training in my Cygnet SF2A I found the VW without a muffler makes for a loud cockpit. I elected to implement Jonathans idea with what was a $40 set of Audio-Technica ATH-ANC23 because I liked 40+ hours on one AAA battery very effective when added to my trusty Passive David Clark 10-13.4 headset. Over the past two years Jonathan and I traded notes and the Idea evolved to include buds under David Clarks up fitted with HeadSets INC ANR kit. I call it Compound ANC. For about$200 your DC will have new life with high end ANR. The concept of compounding this with the original idea yields a synergy with the ANR headset filtering the low frequency spectrum and the buds canceling the higher spectrum.

My DC needed a new mic for PIC duty but would be fine for a passenger. The cost to fix and upgrade approached the $350 cost of a new DRE6001 headset. I elected to buy the DRE-6001 for great comfort, Passive and Active Noise Cancellation. The build quality is superb. Made and Supported in the USA check them out. I ported my ear buds over and I am shocked by the sound of silence! I have attached a few pictures of how I did it I am sure there are other better methods. Jonathan has much more time working with this concept while I will say protect your ears Jonathan sums up the approach as below. "That combination is profoundly quieter and more comfortable than a Bose, DC One X, or Lightspeed alone. The difference in performance with ANC earbuds between headsets inc and high end headsets is negligible and certainly not worth the delta in price!" ----Jonathan Baron Please consider spending at least$40 to protect your ears and make communications clearer.

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#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
A lot of the aerobatic people, especially open cockpit, are doing exactly that.

Nothing worse than a regular ANR headset loosing power. They chunk the passive hearing out the window for weight. I understand why but noisy or open cockpit can sometimes overwhelm ANR to the point that it blocks incoming voice. Of course it’s extreme for most use.

Passive David Clark’s with ANR that would not cost $1000 is awesome. Double ANR must be a joy. 103 #### 103 ##### Well-Known Member A lot of the aerobatic people, especially open cockpit, are doing exactly that. Nothing worse than a regular ANR headset loosing power. They chunk the passive hearing out the window for weight. I understand why but noisy or open cockpit can sometimes overwhelm ANR to the point that it blocks incoming voice. Of course it’s extreme for most use. Passive David Clark’s with ANR that would not cost$1000 is awesome.

Double ANR must be a joy.
If you already own a set of David Clarks the price of admission is only $200 for the kit. RV builders by me think they are great! Add$40 and the joys of compound or double ANC/ANR can be yours for $240 and about 40 minutes with your solder iron. If you don't own a good iron or care to solder Headsets INC will do the job for$50. Buying all new without a spare set of David Clarks is under $400 easy! PS be sure to request the$10 upgrade to the Auto Off Battery box unless you know you will switch it off at the end of every flight! I think the Auto Off box is standard with the DRE6001 option. Jonathan uses these rechargeable with his. I might spring for a panel mounted power buck when my 8 pack of 9V is depleted at 12-15 hours each 2023 I project. Ok enough shilling for Headsets Inc they are Knowledgeable people with a better mouse trap made and serviced in the USA!

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TFF

#### 103

##### Well-Known Member
Jonathan has just extended his compound ANR set up by adding rechargeable 9V to the low cost battery box option that comes from Headsets Inc.
He wrote me and said share as possible! If you are on FB follow here.

If not this thumbnail should provide enough detail on the mod

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#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Are you using the Audio Technica earbuds just for the ANR or are you feeding the radio signal into them?

I have a a set of the AT earbuds somewhere, I used them for awhile in my Fisher but they weren't enough by themselves, passive Plugfones worked better. I'll have to try them under my passive DCs.

#### 103

##### Well-Known Member
Are you using the Audio Technica earbuds just for the ANR or are you feeding the radio signal into them?

I have a a set of the AT earbuds somewhere, I used them for awhile in my Fisher but they weren't enough by themselves, passive Plugfones worked better. I'll have to try them under my passive DCs.

#### D_limiter

##### Well-Known Member
Oh man, as someone with persistent tinnitus (too many concerts in my youth, and the ringing in my ears has gotten worse with flying) I am really interested in ways to protect my remaining, precious, hearing. I wear earplugs under my headset, but this set up is really appealing!

103

#### 103

##### Well-Known Member
Oh man, as someone with persistent tinnitus (too many concerts in my youth, and the ringing in my ears has gotten worse with flying) I am really interested in ways to protect my remaining, precious, hearing. I wear earplugs under my headset, but this set up is really appealing!
I hope it works for you as well as it does me. Yesterday I was flying 40 minutes with only the Audio Tecnica ear buds running before I noticed. At a minimum replace your foam 23db plugs with these. That said when I flipped the compound headsets inc switch wow....

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
Am I missing something??? We buy subwoofers and high end audio in our homes and vehicles but we want to chop off frequency range in our airplanes?

#### ToddK

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I have the DRE-6001 myself. Great headset, huge difference in a 172 and a Champ. However, the Rotax 582 on the Chinook is pretty loud, probably due to the higher pitch sound it makes. I might try the noise cancelling earbuds.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Am I missing something??? We buy subwoofers and high end audio in our homes and vehicles but we want to chop off frequency range in our airplanes?
Are you trolling, or is that a serious question?

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
I’m am serious. I have a few hours under my belt and refused to fly without a headset and intercom in my formative years. Noise cancelling chops off your lower frequencies that I prefer to hear. I have a lot of Sonos audio products and love clean music that panders to my ears. I love my Halo tube phone headsets and only use a head clamp when flying my Champ (because they live there). If you need binoculars to see me in the Champ; I’ve gone too far.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
OK; just wanted to be sure you were serious.

First, note that the 'remove low frequencies' thing really wasn't a goal in the original noise cancelling headsets, it was a technology limitation. The early products didn't have the processing speed/ability to cancel higher frequencies; they just worked on what they could manage and used passive methods for higher frequencies.

We seem to differ in our understanding of what noise cancelling headsets do. I'm not a scientist, but I was a live sound engineer in a past life, and spent quite a large percentage of my disposable income on audiophile quality stereo gear 'back in the day', before marriage rearranged my priorities. My understanding is that noise cancelling devices cancel *noise*. Ideally, they don't modify the actual signal at all.

If you prefer to hear all the low frequency engine and airframe *noise*, then there's no reason to invest in noise cancelling, but be aware that your hearing will suffer. On the other hand, if you prefer to hear low frequencies in *music* while flying, then noise cancelling headsets can help by stripping out the low frequency background *noise*, allowing you to hear the music's 'bottom end'.

I use Halos also, and I do like them a lot. The mfgr is local to me, and I debuted a pair, listening to music in his facility, before purchasing a pair. But I'd never be able to convince myself that they come anywhere close to having audiophile quality sound. They're just a lot better in sound quality than the typical a/c headset, which really does have very limited bandwidth. I should say that generally with a/c headsets, there's a really good reason to have limited bandwidth. The headsets are there for two reasons. The primary purpose is communication, and hearing protection is just a byproduct of trying to reduce noise to the point where you can hear what's being communicated. The range of frequencies in intelligible speech is rather limited. Any non-speech noise, even if it's outside the frequency range of speech, reduces intelligibility. Limited bandwidth in a communications headset speaker (and microphone) helps limit the quantity of extraneous noise that makes it to your ear, which improves intelligibility.

Active noise cancelling (or really good passive cancelling, like Halos) changes the game. If you can accurately and effectively remove external noise, then wider bandwidth headphone speakers become a viable option, though I'd never expect to have an audiophile experience in an a/c, any more than I expect one in a car. It's just not possible to clean up the audio environment enough, and even if it were possible, the audiophile listening experience requires *participation* by the listener. I'm not joking about this; it literally takes too much *mental* bandwidth to immerse yourself in a listening experience to safely operate an a/c (or car) at the same time. So my choice is to achieve 'good enough' in cars and a/c, and leave the audiophile stuff for home, when I can participate fully.

Do I explain too much?

Charlie

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
Not at all.
I’ll declare ignorance and like for it to be fixed. If I can get better audio I’ll bite. I love my PS engineering audio panel and the stereo quality it can put out. If there is a higher quality “in ear” headset I’d give it a try. I used the uFly mike with a Bose QC2 in quieter cockpits and found it comfortable but it doesn’t cut it in pistons. I’d much rather listen to music on a long trip than ATC controlling other airplanes when I’m flying for selfish reasons.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
As I mentioned, I'm currently using Halos, but this thread is tempting me to try active earbuds for the listening side (still use the Halo for its mic).

For those who are using the AT buds: Looking at the images, they seem to be physically similar to many other earbuds on the market which don't actually seal into your ear canal. Is that the case? Or can the little soft pads be replaced with silicone or expanding foam that *will* seal into your ear canal?

I'm asking because while I'd love to get even better noise reduction than the Halos offer, I'm not willing to go back to wearing a head vise. In my prior experience, active noise cancelling needs a well-sealed chamber to work effectively. Perhaps the new tech has reduced that need.

Now I'm pondering the versions that use bluetooth and don't need an extra wire...

Charlie

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
Headsets are a necessary evil....

#### 12notes

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
As I mentioned, I'm currently using Halos, but this thread is tempting me to try active earbuds for the listening side (still use the Halo for its mic).

For those who are using the AT buds: Looking at the images, they seem to be physically similar to many other earbuds on the market which don't actually seal into your ear canal. Is that the case? Or can the little soft pads be replaced with silicone or expanding foam that *will* seal into your ear canal?

I'm asking because while I'd love to get even better noise reduction than the Halos offer, I'm not willing to go back to wearing a head vise. In my prior experience, active noise cancelling needs a well-sealed chamber to work effectively. Perhaps the new tech has reduced that need.

Now I'm pondering the versions that use bluetooth and don't need an extra wire...

Charlie
I had the same problem, but then I ordered the black supersoft foam tips for the Halo, and they seal a lot better than the tips it comes with. Not sure why they don't ship a pair with the headset, but they made a huge difference to me. They're only \$2 a pair, probably worth a shot.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Well, I did a bit of digging. According to the AT website at
ATH-ANC23BK
That model only provides 20 dB of noise reduction, and they don't provide any graph or chart showing frequency curves. In the Q&A section, someone asks about that, and the (unsatisfactory) response was simply that most of the noise cancelling is below 500 Hz. Based on the knowledge/experience I've accumulated over the decades, that's about the same as a good set of foam earplugs below 500 Hz, and likely, a *lot worse* above 500 Hz, given their admission that most of the effect is sub-500 Hz. Certainly nowhere close to the performance of the Halos, which have 30+ dB of reduction, and do very well with higher frequencies, unlike active reduction.

They may be great as an addition to a head vise, but I'm not going back there.

If I read some of the posts correctly, it sounds (pardon the pun) like some of you guys are plugging these things in your ears and still using the speakers in the a/c headset. That's got to be a truly bizarre audio experience, unless the active reduction in the ATs isn't really doing anything. Think about what's going on....

12notes,
Just saw your post. Not sure what problem you're referring to. I don't consider the Halos as having a problem; I'm just open to spending a extra few bucks if it'll give me a radical improvement beyond the already great product. I've been using the silicone tips for almost the entire time I've owned mine, primarily for the ease/speed of insertion in my ears vs the foam tips. I recognize that they don't provide quite as effective noise reduction; I just picked convenience over max performance. Thanks for the info on the supersoft tips, though. I may give him a call & order a few sets to try. Not having to worry about batteries has been *great*. Back in my Lightspeed days, I always had a box or bag of AAs rattling around somewhere in the a/c.

If I get bored, I may start researching higher quality active ear buds. Perhaps there's something out there with better than the 30-40 dB of reduction with the Halos. (I doubt it, but, hey, worth looking around.)

Charlie