Painting with latex house paint

[Insect]

"I would never be happy with that mylar unless I had some way of shrinking it or mechanically tensioning it. "
Sorry, I meant that my 24" wide sample is not rigged with bracing in a way to tension the mylar with heat. The wing will certainly be tensioned with heat and flat, not as per my sample image.

OK, so about paint. I definitely will use floetrol. What I have trouble envisioning is an automotive smooth finish coming out of housepaint, i.e. that the prob can blow bugs/debris into and can be cleaned. Mind you, my last contact with gloss housepaint may have been 15 yrs ago, even then it was only semi-gloss.

I anticipate some tests in the coming week with advise from here, and see where it goes. Another route is spar urethane... I really like polyurethane as is used on indoors furniture, but it is too rigid for this, I hear spar urethane is tolerable, but I kinda want the entire aircraft to be white, clear, with black accents for air traffic visibility. A clearcoated LE is kinda retro, but function over form.

 

[challenger_II]

You will be surprised what finish you can get with the Beyr exterior latex.
I'm late to the game: are you planning a fabric cover, or Mylar cover?

 

[karmarepair]

I definitely will use floetrol.

You Do You, but my read is that Floetrol will reduce gloss even as it smooths the finish.

The aluminum side of my engine stand cover needs finish paint, so I'll try some of it.

 

[rv7charlie]

I guess I should have been a little more specific. I foam-rollered (4") and foam-brushed the 1st coat or two of the Gripper primer, with *very* light sanding between coats. I sprayed the Behr exterior gloss using that $10 Harbor Freight HVLP gun. All thinning was done with tap water, using the WDA website method. I am most definitely not an experienced painter. My prior experience with a spray gun was zero, except painting the outside of my house with an airless sprayer. (Airless house sprayers are stupid-easy, if you can point in the general direction & not fall asleep with the trigger pulled.)

I would not want to try the finish coats with a brush. I'd fully expect to see the brush marks in the finish just like you do on house trim, if you look closely enough. The WDA site talks about how to sand/buff acrylic to get a shiny finish, but that wasn't my goal. I just wanted it to look as good as traditional finishes.

Charlie

 

[CAVU Mark]

So the purpose of using house paint is what? Saving money or burning time?

 

[rv7charlie]

It's quite a bit cheaper than traditional fabric finishing products, and available locally vs delay & expense of shipping, especially if you're looking at the chemical based systems. It's also safer to use than the chemical based systems, and at least *seems* a more familiar process than the traditional coatings. No time was burned in the coating of my a/c fabric, so not sure where you're going with that.

 

[Wanttaja]

It's quite a bit cheaper than traditional fabric finishing products, and available locally vs delay & expense of shipping, especially if you're looking at the chemical based systems. It's also safer to use than the chemical based systems, and at least *seems* a more familiar process than the traditional coatings. No time was burned in the coating of my a/c fabric, so not sure where you're going with that.

Also is a lot easier to apply (using a roller) and thus is more neighbor friendly (e.g., no overspray). As Charlie says, it's safer than chemical-based systems, so you don't need to don PPE when applying. But cost is definitely a biggie.

Drew Fidoe's follow up posting on his latex painting experience sums it up pretty well.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[rv7charlie]

I sprayed my finish coats in a closed hangar with no particular attention to ventilation or air filtering. With everything up off the floor and using the small HF HVLP gun, there was very little lasting overspray, meaning that the little that made it to the floor disappeared fairly quickly during normal use of the hangar.
IMO, the big advantages of spraying were probability of less weight, a better finish with far less effort, and it went *a lot* faster than the (required) roller process for the primer coats. Only downside for me is that I did feel it was prudent to wear an N95 mask while spraying, verified by the significant yellow tint on the outside of the mask by the time I finished. In retrospect after the last 18 months, not a big deal at all....
;-)

 

[TFF]

I’m not a fan of only covering the open bays. If it’s aluminum, it’s a waste to paint and add weight. Wood needs something but there is better. Taping the covering to the trailing edge of the leading edge is not safe enough for me. Mechanical attachment like outboard wing panels of early Corsairs or some Russian bush planes is fine. I’m not letting the low pressure suck my covering away with tape. Don’t care what others have gotten away with. Those are the kind of failures that happened in WW1 although I believe someone glued wing covering to a skybolt without stitching and the covering ripped off. I think they got lucky and got it on the ground. Still wrecked it but people survived.

 

[allonsye]

Good stuff. I'm in the final stages of Thatcher CX4 build. Will prime with Glidden Gripper and apply (spraying) per Mr. Morrison's (Weiner Dog Aero) directions.

 

[allonsye]

I would never be happy with that mylar unless I had some way of shrinking it or mechanically tensioning it.

On my experiments I mostly followed WeinerDogAero's advice. I used two coats of water based primer thinned 25% with water (WDA tried both windshield washer fluid and Floetrol and did not see any advantage to either over water) direct to the shrunk dacron, followed with about 4 coats of water based Rustoleum Gloss, rolled and tipped. I tried various brushes, and settled on foam brushes, cleaned with water between coats. I alternated the direction of brushing, and sanded a little between coats, but the "emulsion" paint doesn't sand too well. I ended up with a "five footer" finish. I used a "nib file" to dress down the runs and drips.

I've seen Weiner Dog's finishes on a couple of his aircraft. Totally legit!

 

[Insect]

Taping the covering to the trailing edge of the leading edge is not safe enough for me.

I agree, it concerns me also. We know the action on the top leading edge of a wing, in vacuum, is significant and dynamic. So I am likely going to tape it there well, then encapsulate another taped layer around the painted LE to have the entire wing in mylar.

I could use fibered strapping tape longitudinal to the aircraft at a given distance to compartmentalize failure if it should happen, but they are not good with UV. I did a concentrated sun study last year on tapes. Some do excellent: Brady ID toughstripe floor tape , 3m 355 tape, a few others. Other tapes will lose it in UV.

Anyhow still digesting how to do this, but getting paint plan squared away still has to happen, thx.
I was checking weinerdog's progress, yes, ideal, looks very good to me.
Also: Glidden Gripper is discontinued. Any equivalent item coming to mind?

 

[karmarepair]

Also: Glidden Gripper is discontinued. Any equivalent item coming to mind?

Any water based primer should be fine. I has a can of Ace Hardware "Galvanized and Aluminum" Primer that I used just because I had it on hand. Whatever brand of water based exterior primer is commonly available in your region. "Zinsser Bulls Eye Zero White Smooth Water-Based Acrylic Primer and Sealer" should work, so should "KILZ 2 All Purpose White Water-Based Primer and Sealer".

 

[Mig29fuk]

Can thoroughly recommend Zinsser Bulls Eye Zero Primer rolled on. It's been on 8 years now.
It was applied on top of very scrappy finish? Gently sanded back crazed areas and went for it.
Looked good, easy to apply and I had the advantage of an old type aircraft that I wanted to look shabby chic.
The blue area are also a Latex from ECO an Icelandic Paint Company. Everything was rolled on.
It's worth doing with older fabric aircraft and use a 4 inch fine hair Roller.
Regards
Gerry

 

[Doran Jaffas]

I am finding this conversation very interesting is tristing.

I have looked at latex painting with a lighe's painting with a lot of skepticism over the last few years but this conversation adds some credibility to it.. I'm looking at the 20 year old paint job on my W10 and thinking it could use it could use a spruce up.As in a change of color with a new paint job.Obviously it is painted already with with the normal system system for coconut. What I'm wondering is will the primer stick to a standard aircraft coating such as suits, butyrate or something else?

 

[Doran Jaffas]

My phone is acting up so forgive me if I am double texting this.

I have looked What skepticism over the last few years of this type of painting on an aircraft. This conversation lends credibility to it.

I am wondering if the primer with adhere to an aircraft already finished in something such as butyrate or even enamel?

What has been the experience longevity wise?

Thanks.
Doran Jaffas

 

[rv7charlie]

I certainly couldn't tell you. If you can ID the actual product you're going to paint over, and look up its chemical makeup, you might be able to ask the tech dept at a major paint mfg if their products will stick to it. (I'd probably try to find a way to describe the original coating in terms that don't include the word 'aircraft'...)

 

[Doran Jaffas]

Good point. Appreciate it.

 

[speedracer]

I sprayed my finish coats in a closed hangar with no particular attention to ventilation or air filtering. With everything up off the floor and using the small HF HVLP gun, there was very little lasting overspray, meaning that the little that made it to the floor disappeared fairly quickly during normal use of the hangar.
IMO, the big advantages of spraying were probability of less weight, a better finish with far less effort, and it went *a lot* faster than the (required) roller process for the primer coats. Only downside for me is that I did feel it was prudent to wear an N95 mask while spraying, verified by the significant yellow tint on the outside of the mask by the time I finished. In retrospect after the last 18 months, not a big deal at all....
;-)

One big disadvantage of rolling on paint is weight. When spraying (at least with automotive paint) only 1/2 of the weight of the paint stays on the subject. The other 1/2 goes out the exhaust fan, plus evaporation. Rolling it on ALL the weight of the paint stays on the subject. OK, maybe only 95% because of evaporation. I know this because i used to build light weight racing sailboards and would weigh them before and after painting.

 

[rv7charlie]

To put a finer (thinner?) point on it, it's not so much that half the paint goes out the exhaust fan. It's that spraying can lay down a much thinner coat, and still get consistent coverage. At least with HVLP guns, there's very little actual 'fogged' paint floating away from the work.