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Greg Mueller

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Jul 23, 2007
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Rainy WA State
Boy it's hard trying to figure out where to find vintage plans. I've got a call into Lockheed and an email into the Smithsonian.

They had to of had plans to build these planes on the production line(s) :depressed
 

Mac790

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Jun 22, 2008
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Poznan, Poland
So they never got the plane done?
No, but they are going to.

"At the appropriate time, Len Bechtold (President of Team-38 ) will introduce a new web site that will chronicle the progress of these activities, including the revised specifications for the .8P-38."

http://team-38.com/

In short they are going to build flyable prototype.
 

badger

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Oct 10, 2007
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Tooele Utah It's 40 klicks south and west of SLC
I never did. Our very own Orion knows/knew a guy or guys who developed and flew a scale P-38. Looks pretty cool too, but I think it's gone the way of all flesh too....not sure.

I'd still like to try my hand at building a scale P-38....but I think at this stage of the game, I'd never get it finished. (Too old to start a long project!) But, can you imagine!!

John


How did you guys come out on this? Any luck?
 

Craig

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Jan 30, 2003
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Jupiter, Florida
Mr. Bechtold (Team 38) is currently building a Titan T-51, and doing a real good job of it. This man is a true craftsman.
 

Yellowhammer

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Feb 21, 2020
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Louisiana (unfortunately)
There is a gentleman that built his own P-38 from scratch in California.
He is a member of the EAA. Jim O'Hara is his name.

He did a remarkable job. Did his own plans and everything.

Try getting in touch with him and you might hit pay dirt.
 

BJC

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I believe that O’Hara’s is truly a scaled replica, structurally and dimensionally. The engines, of course, are not. Hopefully, someone here can confirm that. I am going by what a mutual friend told me some years ago, so I’m not 100% confident.


BJC
 

ktfiles

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Feb 26, 2012
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USA

Saville

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Apr 28, 2014
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Boston Ma
I believe that O’Hara’s is truly a scaled replica, structurally and dimensionally. The engines, of course, are not. Hopefully, someone here can confirm that. I am going by what a mutual friend told me some years ago, so I’m not 100% confident.


BJC
Neither is the canopy but that's pretty typical with scaled aircraft.
 

BJC

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Neither is the canopy but that's pretty typical with scaled aircraft.
It doesn’t open the proper way, and it has a rear seat. The scale looks really close, at least in the photos that I have seen.

Exact scale or not, it is a good looking airplane.


BJC
 

Saville

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Boston Ma
It doesn’t open the proper way, and it has a rear seat. The scale looks really close, at least in the photos that I have seen.

Exact scale or not, it is a good looking airplane.


BJC
I agree that it's a good looking airplane.

The one picture that shows the canopy in side view shows it to be a little out of whack with the full size 38. Put a picture of the two together and check it out. The full scale canopy is sleeker - not as tall.

Look at the 8th picture down and compare the "canopy to pod ratio" and compare that to a real 38

But as I say, this is common with scaling down and the plane looks outstanding.
 
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choppergirl

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air-war.org

Wild to just find this of the one above flying just now, my grandfathers plane flew with this one in Blue flight, would of looked identical except #31 instead #33. That is wild to see one that flew in his flight on the jungle floor, and this other one dug up - then flying. My grandfather said after the war they just pushed them in a ditch and buried them, and from the pics of #33 being dug up evidentally this was indeed the case. Anybody interested in hunting down the fate of 35th/39th Blue #31 hit me up. White 33 was transferred and ended the war buried in a plane dump at Finschafen Airfield.

Down the rabbit hole we go...


Lockhart #31

Not entirely sure but the 3rd name up from the bottom might be Sparks who flew #33 first.
Frank Royal, another pilot of #33 at 14 mile

This list is a treasure trove:
List of 35th FG Lockheed P-38 Lightnings accounted for on Pacific Wrecks

"

From page about #30:
"Robert Rocker adds:
"Dick Suehr told me that a US Army Signal Corps photo guy showed up one day and took photos of all of the squadrons aircraft at 14 Mile Drome."
 
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mcrae0104

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For the historians present, what was your grandfather's name?
 

choppergirl

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For the historians present, what was your grandfather's name?
Capt. Lewis Lockhart 35th Fighter Group 39th Fighter Squadron
(when you exit the service they notch you up one rank, so that why 2nd Lt --> Capt.)

His P-46 picture is on the top right of cover of Relentless Pursuit by Ken Dooley

The web contact form for WestPac Restorations wasn't working but I shot an email off to someone I know who is in the 39th FS reunion get together group, they might have some inside information from way back when. Also one to the the museum where White 33 is located. Maybe someone has a collection of pics taken of all the planes that I saw mentioned or like a book of records or diary/log of what plane was assigned to whom when or something. I'm not entirely sure which plane I'm looking for yet, because he probably flew in whatever he got assigned and was available (and er working).

It's not helping that though he was a musician/chemist in college he was all practicality and business and not the artsy type to fiddle fart around with adding nose art or personalizing a plane with a name. I never saw him do an artsy thing in his life lol.

If I get knee deep in email with the restoration section of WestPac should I ask for plans for you guys here? I'm looking at the rusty pictures of what was left of White 33 and I'm like dang, not a whole lot of plane those guys had to work with left when they started.
 
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choppergirl

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Got this info back from Linne Haddock, 39th FSA Secretary/Treasurer :
(1) WW2 P38 Pilot Reunited With His Plane. Yes, Dad flew White 33, but not in combat. He and Tommy Lynch were charged, by Gen Kenny, to get them air worthy before letting the 39th Squadron pilots fly them. He and Tommy were the test pilots as the planes were put back together in Australia after they arrived from California.

In the mission Dad talks about where he is protecting another pilot whose plane had been shot out from under him, occurred on 4 Jul 1942. He was flying a P39 Airacobra, not a P38. The other pilot was Frank Angier.

(2) I do not know anything about the “blue nose,” sorry. I do not think specific planes were assigned to specific pilots. They flew what was available on any given day. Your grandfather was correct, if the planes could not fly again they were used for parts and then buried. In the case of White 33, after Ken Sparks flew it, it was repaired and flown again by the 39th and was then transferred to 433rd. At the end of the war, there was no way to bring all the planes and equipment back to the US. They were focuses on bringing 8 million troops home. They planes were dumped into holes, supposed to be burned, and then buried. In the case of White 33, it was buried but not burned.

(3) The picture of White 33, was taken at the time Ken Sparks brought it back from the mission where he shot a Zero and then took another one out with the wing of White 33. A UU Army Air Corps photographer just happened to be there that day and got the “famous” picture. The signatures on the picture are:

(a) Charles P. O’Sullivan, 39th Ft Sqdn (Your grandfather was his wingman on many missions. Dad flew his final combat mission with “Sully” O’Sullivan in Jul 1943 before returning to the State.)
(b) Francis R. Royal, CO 39th Ft Sqdn (Was commander when the 39th went from Bellingham, WA to San Francisco, CA to Sydney, Australia in Feb 1942 on the USAT Ancon. He was also CO in Aug 1942 after Maj Berry was killed.)
(c) Curran L. “Jack” Jones, 39th Ftr Sqdn (One of the eight officers that went to the SWAP on the USAT Ancon in Feb 1942.)
(d) Jerry Gettler, 433rd Ft Sqdn (The last pilot to fly White 33.)

I am not aware of any other pictures taken on Dec 27, 1942 at Doradura, New Quinea where Ken Sparks did his emergency landing.

----------------------------------------

Thank you for sharing the pictures. Looks like is was a very nice military service. If you do not have a copy of the “A History of the 39th Pursuit Squadron” Volume One, I have copies and can send one to you. It is $25 which includes shipping.

In answer to your previous eMail, the flight log books belonged to the individual pilots. Some have survived, but they generally focused on the particular pilot’s activities. They may have a type of plane, but not serial numbers or other notations. They have details about the mission - when, where, how many kills and sometime the names of those they flew with.

Yes, the 39th squadron did escort the bombers.

The 39th FSA made copies of the “39th Fighter Squadron Diary” recorded by St Sgt Donald Elmore Thomas, for May 17 1942 to Sept. 6, 1944. It gives pilot names, but no aircraft details except what they were flying - P39s, P38s, P47s. By the way, the flight names/colors were Red, Blue, White, and Green. I think the flight color had to do with the mission order of “the day” rather than the pilots staying in a particular “flight.” According the what I just read in the diary, your grandfather flew in all four flights.

I would think your grandfather has a copy of the Diary, at some point. Maybe someone in the family has it.

I do not think the “blue nose” signified the flight. They flew whatever was available! I have not read the entire diary, but “color” order changed and the pilots identified in a particular flight changed, too.

WestPac, the organization that restored White 33, did a LOT of research on White 33. It was painted in the colors most associated with it at the time Ken Sparks flew it. The “shark’s teeth” are not found on all P38s, for example. I suspect the “blue nose” falls into the same category.

Good luck in find a specific plane related to your grandfather. Have you contact the Air Force Historical Research Agency? Here is the link: Air Force Historical Research Agency

Linne
Don't want to hijack this thread with history stuff, but its kind of interesting to me like archaeology I get to be Indiana Jones. I'm not a military historian though.

I imagine if you wanted to find plans, those guys like a Westrpac that restored White 33 and the other full sized warbirds would have plans in spades... blueprints, etc they got from microfilm maybe or a military archive or library somewhere, or had to come up with themselves to fabricate parts from scratch. Whether they will part with copies of their copies is another matter I can't say.

I'm sure though they got them from somewhere, Library of Congress, US Air Force, or Lockheed Corporation. I'd hit up the Library of Congress or Lockheed... or maybe a dedicated military only repository / archive library for US exists... somewhere? Like the Germans kept in spades and that survived after WW2? The same info I'm looking for would be buried in the same type library I bet if such a thing exists. Some dusty moldy binder book in stacks of them in some box on some bookshelf in some probably mostly closed to the public archive.


This is just epic. Anyone near Colorado Springs, CO?
1. Let me print out a vinyl decal shadow relief "1" on silver background,
2. Run up and stick it over the last "3",
3. Step back and snap me a picture! :)


 
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