Norms flying Boat

Discussion in 'Bush / Float flying' started by Norm Langlois, Feb 20, 2013.

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  1. May 5, 2018 #141

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    If the weakest link is 1760 lbs breaking strength . (the flying wire) that is per side. What would you rate the wings G rate?
    On all the other directions the spar alone exceeds 2 G fore, aft and negative with no other assistance.
     
  2. May 5, 2018 #142

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Some more photos. My new rear float construction. prep the surface.jpg apply eurothane foam and clamp.jpg embed the tube skeleton.jpg rough new rear floats.jpg I used a carpet seam roller to roughen the surface. Urethane gap filler for gluing polystyrene. With a 3/4 .059 wall tube skeleton.
    These floats are lighter than my originals. With 4 cubic ft of displacement. A significant increase with with lower base placement of the displacement, compared to the originals. And still the bottom will be higher . The tubing projects approximately 4 inches.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  3. May 6, 2018 #143

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    The rear floats applied to the plane. I looks to be what I intended. 20180506_170425_resized.jpg rear view.jpg
    compare static float image post #118 . Notice the incidence top surface of the rear floats. Compare to this new configuration.
    As previously declared the after portion of the new have more displacement. Mostly because there is no taper going aft.
    With all the float out of the water before takeoff. I expect that after portion difference will not impede but may enhance the up to plan. having more angled surface to achieve same.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  4. Jun 8, 2018 #144

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Things have not gone as planned this spring. I have the new floats mounted . I took some new photos . Setting the camera on a tripod and level with the top of the floats. I can see that they are very near the same elevation as the older setup . With the lower tube 1 inch higher than the older setup. That may have been dragging below water at the startup to on plane. new rr flts.jpg



    left side  new flts.jpg
     

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  5. Jun 15, 2018 #145

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Almost ready to test. Just got me car back and have a few days prep to go through.I have some trailer rework and the inspection and season run up. 127_0198.jpg 127_0200.jpg
     
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  6. Jul 1, 2018 #146

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    The plane has to go on a serious diet I had it weighed and now have to find and remove 58# . this makes a new hull an absolute must .Also as much other reductions I can find. The hull had water weight gain and a lot of resin from hack and chop add on. the ruder pedals have to go as well for lighter version. 127_0201.jpg 127_0204.jpg the pedals are 10# the hull was once 45# now 60#
     
  7. Jul 16, 2018 #147

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Got my hands on a large block of foam. this time I have carved from solid to avoid capillary water infiltration . though weaker I will try to keep thicker or add curvature to create structure . For now this is the core weighing in at 15.4# 127_0220.jpg I still need to carve more just to get to the attachment as before. I will use the same method. The big question is do I carve the bottom for structure or leave it flat?
    The picture does not give size impression its 80 X 36 that is thicker than and wider by 2 inch but shorter by 16 inches the thinner forward is 8 inches thick while the original was only 4 inches over all with much more in contour with v hull and spray strips.
     
  8. Jul 17, 2018 #148

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    If you are asking why I did not ,consider the pickle fork hull ? I can not pursue a flying hull as that, for weight reasons. after so much time experience and other peoples input . I am of the impression a flatter bottom is all that is needed. The need for structure is more important as well. So some contour is needed for structure. I will make the bottom with slight concave contour. The edge will act as a spray strip forward and side. Not to much unlike the original hull just smoother and flattened forward. also the hull will attach further forward than before. Putting the stern exactly at CG.

    The need to cut weight, has also cut options . Also has presented an out of balance that requires repositioning . More of the available weight must be moved forward. This may force me to reposition the pilot seating . Things are a bit of a mess . I will figure it out some how.
     
  9. Jul 20, 2018 #149

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    After some carving I have the weight down to 12.4 still in rough needs some more. 20180720_144326.jpg
     
  10. Jul 20, 2018 #150

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    I'm not sure if many out there want to see how I get the foam cutting done. Its sometimes very difficult ,I have to make tools . There are some out there one can buy. The ones I saw would just not do. Even for this one I had to borrow a real hot wire power supply. Because of a few of my tools being made from 1/16 S/S tig wire my power supplier just burned up. It was just a fan dimmer switch, couldn't handle this one. Even with the real thing the cording needs to be heavy duty. Or time outs are required. these two tools are what I needed to go deep and cut cavities. The TIG wire holds a shape as well making it possible to route out spaces. 20180720_125836.jpg 20180720_125825.jpg
     
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  11. Jul 21, 2018 #151

    billyvray

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    How'd you make the square cutting tool? Is it just a solid handle holding the wires to a socket with tig wire you bend to shape?

    Bill
     
  12. Jul 21, 2018 #152

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Bill the handle is a piece of Bakelite. One can use any such none conductive material that is resistant to melting as well. I drilled holes in that to hold mig gun .060 contact tips. ( Yes I worked in a welding shop) As a fabricator. I also inserted wire through and then soldered said tips to a cord . the hole was two sized and when pressed in stopped at some point. they protruded from the end I used that for a shoe that can be seen, it is a plastic material . since the tips temp do not get high enough to melt that it worked well this time . The wire then was made to shape as I deemed necessary. I have found that I can use up to 16 inches of wire and not lose the intended shape during a cut if one is patient . That's not one of my strong points. The amperage needed is the problem when making such a tool . The amperage required will get the cording hot as well take care to use 12 gauge stranded all the way to your supply. Or just use a shorter duty cycle to allow to cool down . The socket shape for the fuselage. I used a 14 inch wire bent simply to cut a 1.25 wide by 7 inch deep galley before using a bow to cut the sides away. I have another long wire holder I will be using to make surface cuts to concave rather than leave flat . The concave is a stronger stress skin. I have one made from wood with a contact material ( metal plate) that prevents direct wood burn from the hot wire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  13. Jul 21, 2018 #153

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Today's work. I made most of the finishing cuts. the tool that made the concave cuts. 20180721_110019.jpg and the results 20180721_112315.jpg after some sanding and blending 20180721_142712.jpg and finally I made a cut to the bottom I hope I have made a good choice . 20180721_153332.jpg
     
  14. Jul 21, 2018 #154

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    This is a try on you can see how it fits the fuselage boom. 20180721_114847.jpg 20180721_114916.jpg
     
  15. Jul 22, 2018 #155

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    I think I am going to begin glassing after I return from the air show. the final weight after preliminary sanding is 10.4 lbs. Two last photos show front and back how the bottom contours over a relatively flat front to back. I hope this works as well or better than the original. 066.jpg 067.jpg
     
  16. Jul 24, 2018 #156

    larr

    larr

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    Hi Norm.
    It kind of looks like a Sea Flea hull. I'd guess minimal directional stability until you got going fast enough for the control surfaces to work. I think this one is still going to climb the bow wave leading to increased drag and less power as the thrust line goes more vertical.
     
  17. Jul 29, 2018 #157

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Larr
    Your perception is probably correct. If I did not have the rear float system to assist .Be cause of them the total act is changed. they develop drag to the rear initially. Then they assist the main hull to climb the bow wave,with their angle of attack. While also providing straight forward directional, essentially drag like arrow feathers. This hull combo may now be more difficult to turn at low taxi ,because of what you point out. It also may be less, allowing more ruder control because of the slip,pivoting on the rear floats. Most important here is the low weight of the whole craft with pilot, 500 lbs.. This new hull has more surface area than the original and more displacement . Combined with the new rear floats ,with their additional displacement and larger area of presentation.
    I can not disagree or confirm without the flight test . We will just have to wait and see.
    Returned from Air venture 2018 . I will get on it. My friend and I finalized the shape and upper appearance contours today, reducing the weight to 10# I will also cut the cockpit cavity (upper deck)a little deeper . Its looking good.
     
  18. Jul 30, 2018 #158

    larr

    larr

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    Hi Norm!
    It probably will be easier to turn (spin) but harder to hold a particular course because of side slip. Additionally, a flat hull will tend to skip on even slight swells which will decelerate your craft.
    sea flea 2.jpg
     
  19. Jul 30, 2018 #159

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Hi Larr
    This is attached to an airplane .The ruder and elevator are effective immediately since they are in the prop air stream. There is plenty of control it will begin flying at 22 MPH. side slip is actually something I want. When the aircraft is on step / plane its a blast since its actually flying on the water and very fun to slip and turn. Able to play like a jet ski. It does not behave like a Lake aircraft in wind and chop, there will be no vertical or skip since the plane is not used in chop with winds in excess of 7 mph. I personally would not fly in the conditions your photo depicts and the plane would never attain that angle.
    Since a true Ultralight plane is very vulnerable to wind effects only experience pilots would enjoy fly then. It is absolutely unpleasant for me flying mine under those conditions.The slow flying high lift wing and diehedral , make for a white knuckle experience above 7 mph and usually with higher gusts.
    Some of the most important things most people do not understand about this project is the weight, flying speed and conditions this aircraft is used in. Since I designed it, that Is my specification.
    Respectfully Norm
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  20. Aug 5, 2018 #160

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

    Norm Langlois

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    Waiting on supplies .I have some new stats. The hull core now weighs 9 lbs. 10 oz. I cut the cockpit cavity deeper. I like my ruder pedals and removed unnecessary metal and drilled weight reduction holes they now weigh 4 lbs. 3 oz. can cut some more away when I know the attachment point. 20180804_162717.jpg
     

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