More problems for the "B Team" from ST. Louis

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Rhino

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Yeah, I've talked with someone who worked there too. He left a couple of years ago when bureaucrats started taking over.
 

Victor Bravo

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WARNING, slightly OT, could be misconstrued as political, but hopefully relevant enough to withstand that test. If not, my apologies.

If this were a "free market economy" like my high school teacher told me about, then letting Boeing fail and somebody else assume leadership in the aircraft industry would be the industrial Darwinism that America historically stands for.

But the big thing that changed is that the competitors who would cheerfully step in and take advantage of Boeing's lack of attention now have other agendas and other motivations.

If Lockheed went back into the transport business that's one thing. Let Darwin sing his song.

But nowdays, a failure at Brand B lets Brand A get a bigger and more dangerous foothold in my home country's economy. Heck, maybe even Antonov and Ilyushin too? It could eventually result in a Mu-Shu takeover of Boeing's corporate suite or stock, at least some of it. At the very least it allows forces outside of (my home country's) industry to start to flex muscles that ought not be flexed... because there are entities out there who would love for that door to be open - who do not have (my home country's) aviation industry best interests at heart.

So punishing misbehaved children is one part of it, and making sure the back door is locked against child predators is another.
 

David L. Downey

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No, they need to pull the old gray haired 707 and 727 and 747 engineers out of retirement and put them back into their old jobs. Boeing's only viable path forward is to go backward in terms of their entire thinking and methods of operation.
there is a problem there...many of us have zero interest in returning to the employer we finally reach escape velocity from. We had been watching the company lose its edge for decades and the reality is that the board and officers are happy with their parachutes and **** the customers and employees in the process.
40 years ago when I stared with them after 15 years in GA manufacturing experimental departments, there was still value seen in the rapid methods of design, test, redesign/optimize, test...turn the crank. fail=back up one iteration, productionize. somewhere alon ghte way it became seen as "too costly" and wasteful...why do that when we can analyse and do digital prototyping/testing? then the great solutions became unreliable without massive iteration and inclusion of all sorts of minutiae...and here we are. history based on technical superlaitves. now = incompetents and unaware wall to wall (Dunning-Kruger anyone?)
 

David L. Downey

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It looks bad right now from the outside. We can't tell from the outside how bad it really is though. Hopefully it's just a really rough patch.

Since it is still very much a finance managed/controlled company, It's hard to tell if they learned a lesson or if they are already beyond the ability to learn such a lesson.

The reptilian part of my brain blames McDonnell Douglas!!! No way MY neighbors and friends f'd this up!!! (now I live in the NYC area though and most of my Seattle neighbors are retired....)
and my internal brain says that we (Boeing) have finally became the McD that bought us with our money a few years back.
 

WonderousMountain

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The structural problem is really that our current system rewards those playing money games MUCH more than we reward those who make reliable stuff. The last time I checked, about 30% of the dollars generated in our economy are via the Finance/Banking/Investment/Management industries. The percent of the economy generated by these activities has just about tripled since I started college.
Not only that, but the effect on growth is negative.
It would be easier to give them money to stay home.
 

Jay Kempf

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The structural problem is really that our current system rewards those playing money games MUCH more than we reward those who make reliable stuff. The last time I checked, about 30% of the dollars generated in our economy are via the Finance/Banking/Investment/Management industries. The percent of the economy generated by these activities has just about tripled since I started college.

I am not sure penalizing the MBAs for failing works, because we rarely penalize MBAs so the perceived risk is low. Even if we upped the perceived risk, the rewards are SO high, finding new MBAs to "roll the dice" is easy.

Even then, in my experience, the business leaders who ACTUALLY make the decisions also are mostly insulated from proof that they made those decisions. The guys that wrote the memos and actually did the work are the ones you catch; and they were following the orders of someone else you will probably never pin down.
I have watched in slow real time over decades MBA's being put in to manage engineering/manufacturing companies. Most times this happens after some venture capital business buys a manufacturing business and brings in their own management team. Been through that cycle 3 times in my life. Ended up wasting about 18 years watching people make increasingly bad decisions based on cooking the books for the next sale of the company. When an engineering based business forms from scratch from one strong leader decisions are made understanding the base technology and all other compromises. When that leader leaves and the next generation takes over it can just death spiral. This can be nepotism, take overs, acquisitions, etc... doesn't matter in the end the results are the same. Leaderless organizations don't do well. It isn't just high profile companies that are media darlings left or right, positive or negative. It is a huge fraction of the overall companies out there. One factor is just the aging out of the initial entrepreneur. After that anything goes. MBA's aren't the problem. They are the tool used by the problem.
 

Pilot-34

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Most of me is in IL but my hearts in Alaska
I’ve never liked to deal with a company or people that build or sell “product “

More than once when somebody has referred to something as product I’ve asked them don’t you even know what the hell you’re doing here??
 
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Pilot-34

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Most of me is in IL but my hearts in Alaska
Lol
Never trust a man in a tie if you think about it all the worst things in your entire life have probably been done to you by a man in a tie.
Used car salesman cops judges preachers stockbrokers and teachers…..
And there is a reason the Bible prohibits them!
 

BJC

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Poor Boeing. They did everything that they could to develop the 737MAX on the cheap, then they had to spend lots of money for a fast-track, expensive, fix. Now it cost too much for one of their customers.


BJC
 

Bill-Higdon

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Poor Boeing. They did everything that they could to develop the 737MAX on the cheap, then they had to spend lots of money for a fast-track, expensive, fix. Now it cost too much for one of their customers.


BJC
Unlike the "A Team" who always had a plan that worked Boeing's current management seems to have plan(s) that never work
 
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