Long flight SE to NW Planning

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by PiperCruisin, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. Nov 14, 2019 #21

    PiperCruisin

    PiperCruisin

    PiperCruisin

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    Holy carp! Thanks. That is a lot of replies.

    Depending on the winds and weather I will adjust my route to either pass north of Cheyenne about 20 nm and head directly west or a southern route passing between ABQ and Sante Fe.

    I've been playing with Skyvector and airnav a lot and I bought a Stratux to use with Avare...or maybe Droid EFB (being that I get a CFI discount).

    I'll have a TAS of 105 to 110 kts. So crossing the Rockies around Wyoming with a lot of wind in winter not my idea of fun. This is more of a ferry trip.

    Also not looking forward to a lot of potential low ceilings and fog in the SE, especially with the weather lately. May have to plan my trip when I stand a good chance with the weather without getting stuck somewhere for a week. Then there is needing a hanger and/or plug-in for an overnight.
     
  2. Nov 14, 2019 #22

    BJC

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    I flew the reverse of that one January. Logan to overfly Cheyenne, then SE to Dodge City. Tailwinds started at 60 knots, then tapered off to 40 - 45 knots.

    Beautiful scenery that time of year in the Rockies. Think carefully about a good survival kit. I stayed within gliding range of highways.


    BJC
     
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  3. Nov 14, 2019 #23

    Pops

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    Go IFR. Follow interstate 80 to Cheyenne , expect high head winds between Laramie- Rawlins on to Rock Springs due to the funnel effect between the mountains. Salt Lake City north up interstate 15. Or the north route. Like BJC said, good survival kit. Know of a pilot in a slow airplane the flew in the headwinds west of Rawlins and wasn't making enough GS to go anywhere and ran out of fuel and landed and waited for 3 days for help. You are not going to walk anywhere.
     
  4. Nov 14, 2019 #24

    davidb

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    PC, it sounds like you have a good feel for the challenges ahead. I doubt you’ll get stuck for a week but chances are high for getting stuck for a couple of days somewhere along your journey. If/when you are faced with a weather delay, opt for an airport close to town with good services rather than the cheaper fuel.

    I would plan my RONs at airports with FBOs that are open when I land. I’d have the gear to weather an overnight on the ramp but...
     
  5. Nov 14, 2019 #25

    davidb

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    Right now the winds and weather favor the southern route by Santa Fe. What airport are you starting from and which is your final destination?
     
  6. Nov 15, 2019 #26

    PiperCruisin

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    Not sure exactly which airport just yet. It's complicated. Airplane is based in one spot, being hangered in another, and moved today to another for a pre-buy.

    I am seriously considering the Sante Fe route. The famous Wyoming wind could be a real bummer this time of year. Regardless, I'm planning to be well equipped.

    I'll let everyone know how it goes.
     
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  7. Nov 15, 2019 #27

    pwood66889

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    "I'll let everyone know how it goes."
    Looking forward to reading your adventure!
     
  8. Nov 15, 2019 #28

    harrisonaero

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    The Ercoupe is about the fastest certified plane you can get for the money. Fred Weick was one of the best certified aircraft designers that has ever been and his designs far ahead of their time. At its peak the Erco factory was putting out 34 aircraft *a day*. Name any other aircraft company in history that's done that in peacetime. If you're interested in aircraft engineering at all I highly recommend reading "From the Ground Up".
     
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  9. Nov 15, 2019 #29

    Pops

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    Give you 25 hrs in an Ercoupe and you will be an Ercoupe lover.
    I got to have a good talk to Fred Weick at OSH many years ago. Wouldn't we love to have him for a engineering instructor. Very nice man.
     
  10. Nov 15, 2019 #30

    Rockiedog2

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    Only one I ever flew was no rudders. Only airplane I ever flew that I didn’t like
     
  11. Nov 15, 2019 #31

    Pops

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    Some Ercoupes has the rudders interconnected to the ailerons and some has the rudders connected to the rudder pedals. I have had both.
    Ercoupes has a max crosswind component of 25 mph. Higher than a lot of small light aircraft.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  12. Nov 15, 2019 #32

    PiperCruisin

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    Just for information, it is a Cherokee 140 ...
     
  13. Nov 15, 2019 #33

    Pops

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    Heck, a Cherokee handles a crosswind so good, its a non- event. Owned one for 5 years and wife and I did a lot of traveling with it.
     
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  14. Nov 16, 2019 #34

    Rockiedog2

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    Right as usual Pops.
    The one I flew had the rudders hooked to the ailerons. Nothin but a brake pedal on the floor. Best I remember.
    What if we wanta do a spin? Or don’t like the idea of being protected from ourselves?
     
  15. Nov 16, 2019 #35

    BJC

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    Rockiedog2: You don’t fly an Ercoupe, you drive it.


    BJC
     
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  16. Nov 16, 2019 #36

    Rockiedog2

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    Sorry
    It’s just not my idea of a pilot’s airplane
     
  17. Nov 16, 2019 #37

    Pops

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    It takes more pilots skill to fly the Ercoupe than a Cessna 150. #1-- WIth no flaps your approach to landing is flatter (less angle) and a small variation in your glide path makes a much larger difference in the touchdown point. #2 -- With the rudders interconnected with the ailerons, you can't lower a wing in a crosswind. The LG is designed to crab into touchdown. That creates a problem, the owners manual says to lightly let go of the control wheel ( the nose wheel steering is connected to ailerons, just like the rudders. With the trailing arm main gear far behind the CG the airplanes nose will swing into the direction of travel out of the crab. There is the problem. The upwind wing increases in airspeed and the downwind wing decreases in airspeed. The upwind wing will tend to lift up ( large amount of dihedral makes it worse) lifting the upwind main wheel off the ground with a swerve towards the down wind ( Wheel borrowing). You can't lower the wing with the aileron, because it will turn the nose wheel into the high wing making it worse. The only thing you can do is add power and as the speed increases the high wing will come down due to the dihedral effect. A high percentage of Ercoupe accidents is going off the end of the runway or into trees, etc at the end of the runway.
    Answer-- Don't land an Ercoupe with coupled rudders to the ailerons on a strong crosswind on a short runway.
    An Ercoupe with rudder pedals helps somewhat. You can take some of the crap out with the rudder before and at touchdown. But not much because each rudder just moves to the outside and about 4 degress to the inside and the nosewheel is still connected to the nose wheel. So there is still very little rudder effectiveness. Since you have no flaps, you can also do a mild slip with the one rudder going to the outside. I have even had the windows slid down and reach my hand out on the wing beside the fuselage to help the slip a little. Yes, there is a difference.
    Yep, a Cessna 150 is easier to fly and stay out of trouble.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  18. Nov 16, 2019 #38

    pwood66889

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    Sheesh, Joa... Maybe the moderators will call a time out/thread split.
    And Pops misconstrued the owners manual - lightly let go should be lightly hold onto the control wheel so the nose wheel can turn to the correct place on touchdown. Wing lift on touch down can be corrected by a stab of the break.
    Let's go back planning to go to Idaho .. maybe visit harrisonaero... :)
    Percy
     
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  19. Nov 16, 2019 #39

    Rockiedog2

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    I’ll go with Pops description of his hands on experience with the type.
    He knows...
     
  20. Nov 16, 2019 #40

    Pops

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    Maybe I should had been more detailed. If I was checking someone out in an Ercoupe, I would say "Let Go", because most people will have firm grip on the wheel and letting go should result in what is needed for letting the control wheel "Jerk" in the correct direction as the nose wheel touches down.

    As using brakes in stopping the wing lift. I have flown about a 6 or so Ercoupes and they all had the old Goodyear brakes with the little 1" dia brake pucks. Then they are new they will just hold the airplane from moving on a runup IF you hold the handbrake as much pressure as you can. At touch down speed its about like a gust of wind on the nose in slowing the airplane down. Ercoupes with the much desired Cleveland brakes has to be far better, so maybe that would help.

    Back to the thread--- In going across the mountains, higher winds in the winter and higher DA in the summer. With the Cherokee 140, I'll take the winter and wait the higher winds out if I had to. 2 good friends of mine in a Piper Colt died because they mis judged the DA in the mountains.
    I have a good friend in Big Piney, WY and flys a Christavia with a Cont-0-200 and can't climb out of the valley ( 7K) if its 70 degs or higher.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019

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