Quantcast

Elon Musk REVEALS Tesla's new battery design

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

jandetlefsen

Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
24
50% reduction in price per kWh, 50% increase in energy density at pack level, That's where the industry will likely be in 2-3 years. Not a revolution but interesting to know that the trend will continue.
 
Last edited:

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
8,542
Location
North Carolina
TLDW:
We are piloting a new and improved cell design.
It was like, really hard, man!
Lower resistance per unit capacity.
Much bigger cells.
5% higher energy density.
 

PagoBay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
170
Location
US Territory of Guam
50% increase in energy density at pack level, That's where the industry will likely be in 2-3 years.
5% higher energy density.
Very big variation there. 50% versus 5%
Energy density is the key measure, I believe. Tesla/Musk apparently did not directly say anything about energy density.

But I found this: Tesla unveils new EV battery design, but Musk downplays vehicle-to-grid application
While the improved batteries may not be widely available for years, they represent "substantial advancements," according to Ben Prochazka, national director of the Electrification Coalition. The new 4680 battery, named for its size, will be capable of storing 380 Wh/kg, amounting to a 54% improvement over the Panasonic 2170 cells currently used in the Tesla Model 3, Prochazka said in an email. Costs per kilowatt-hour will decline about 56%.

Energy density as related to volume is one thing. Energy density as related to weight is another.

Often discussed in past threads. Maybe time for an update on what to expect for light aircraft? Hybrid or Hydrogen to come to market sooner? Whose crystal ball is more clear?
 

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
296
Very big variation there. 50% versus 5%
Energy density is the key measure, I believe. Tesla/Musk apparently did not directly say anything about energy density.

...
Please look at the screenshot, from my last post .
 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,267
Location
Rocky Mountains
I didn't see 5% ; I thought i understood (5X) the energy density ?
The 5X energy increase is due to the 5.48X increase in the volume of the package from the 2170 to the 8046. The packaging is a pretty clever innovation, IMHO, but hardly worthy of the hype.
 

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
296
Are you certain ; they measure energy density, in
that manor ?



Bille
 
Last edited:

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
8,542
Location
North Carolina
The 5X energy increase is due to the 5.48X increase in the volume of the package from the 2170 to the 8046. The packaging is a pretty clever innovation, IMHO, but hardly worthy of the hype.
My interpretation is that the biggest advantage of the new cells is lower internal resistance. Not much help for pure electric flight other than faster recharge potential, but good news for hybrids.
I misread the size of the new cells to get 5% more energy density.
The video was pure P.R. Not much real substance in there.
 

Geraldc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
359
Location
nz
The biggest advantage for electricity for flight is that the fuel weighs nothing. It is the "tank" where the reduction in weight and size is going to take place.
 

jandetlefsen

Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
24
This is really the key slide. The rest is just showing the improvement of single changes.

Screen Shot 2563-09-24 at 00.54.24.png

54% range increase is equivalent to gravimetric energy density, that's Wh per kg. The top 14% are what they achieve through smarter pack integration. That is probably less applicable outside their cars, if you could access the Tesla cells for something like an airplane application.

It's certainly more than just PR. But it's an industry roadmap more than a product announcement. The implications are huge, but few will get it.
 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,267
Location
Rocky Mountains
My interpretation is that the biggest advantage of the new cells is lower internal resistance.
<< >>
The video was pure P.R. Not much real substance in there.
Maybe not internal resistance but less overall resistance. It does have a more direct and robust path to the terminals. My take is that the real advantages are the speed with they can be produced and because they can now build a bigger battery there are fewer connections needed in the final package. Both aimed at reducing cost.....for Tesla.
<< >>
Agree. The 5X increase in capacity* is pure smoke and mirrors.

*energy per unit, not energy/volume or energy/mass
 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,267
Location
Rocky Mountains
This is really the key slide.
Looks like a huge investment in the cell factory - a variable that according to the slide has zero effect on range. The cell design costs look to be the only one that is actually paying for the development cost. At about a 2/1 ratio of investment/savings for the cell factory it may be a while before they amortize the total cost of the new battery.

The 14% improvement in range due to integration: Is that calculated or proven? If proven then that does represent a significant improvement.
 

cheapracer

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
6,273
Location
Australian
Says the guy who peddles electric cars.
No, you're thinking of pedal assist electric bicycles, I don't sell them.

Otherwise I don't really know what you mean, these batteries might help range a little, but won't affect the weight problem by much, merely an incremental improvement that won't help aircraft to suddenly change over to electric.

It's merely added more icing on the turd.
 
Top