Air Cooled Water jacket engine ?

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pictsidhe

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Better cooling with new materials?
Ok, then.
Diamond has 5 times better heat conductivity than silver. It's also light, very hard and wear resistant. It should make great heads and cylinders?
 

rv6ejguy

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It's important to remember that when talking about air cooled finning, the cooling air proceeds from the top down, not the root first, closer to the heat source where Delta T would be highest. This is a fundamental reason why air cooling is limited in it's ability to reject heat. By the time the cooling air makes it down near the root of the fin, it's already much hotter and Delta T is much reduced.
 

Pilot-34

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Lol. I like the patent , interesting stuff there.
I just can’t figure the relevance of the quote....
 

Dan Thomas

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See that’s the thing about rehashing old problems from years ago all they had was cast-iron then someone invented steel, Since then titanium chromium and carbon fiber has come along so we can do things that we couldn’t do at the beginning of time.
SMH.
Steel has been with us since 1800 BC. Nearly 4000 years. The Wright Brothers' first engine was of cast aluminum and cast iron, at a time when aluminum was quite rare and expensive. Stainless steel (iron-chromium alloys) were being marketed in the 1840s. Tungsten was added shortly after that. Elwood Haynes, of Kokomo, Indiana, in the very early 1900s, developed a bunch of the modern alloys we use in jet engines and exhaust systems today. I've been to the museum of his work in Kokomo, an interesting place. He also developed what is claimed to be the first commercially successful motorcar.

I'm still waiting for a carbon-fiber engine. In fact, a lot of us old guys are still waiting for the ceramic engines we were promised in the 1970s. All we see are some plastic parts on the same old aluminum and cast iron engines, parts like intake manifolds and radiator headers. And some of those haven't done too well.

Flights of fancy don't get the job done. Real stuff comes out of shops run by quiet, determined people who have studied as much as they could find on their subjects and who are willing to spend a lot of time and money on experimenting. Stuff is not invented on internet forums.
 

Pilot-34

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It's important to remember that when talking about air cooled finning, the cooling air proceeds from the top down, not the root first, closer to the heat source where Delta T would be highest. This is a fundamental reason why air cooling is limited in it's ability to reject heat. By the time the cooling air makes it down near the root of the fin, it's already much hotter and Delta T is much reduced.
Wouldn’t the cooling proceed from where the coolant (air) was introduced?
Just as the heating would proceed from where the heat was introduced?
Imagine an 8 ft.² 1 inch thick piece of steel with enough heat applied to one edge to bring it to a nice cherry red
if that sheet was perfectly insulated at some point the entire thing would be cherry red
Now imagine in the center of one side we apply some sort of cooling force
We eventually will get a real nice round coolant pattern coolest at the center warmest out towards the edges
We eventually will get a real nice round coolant pattern coolest at the center warmest out towards the edges
Now if without changing anything else we should manage to cut that sheet in the various shapes we would have various shapes of cooling in the pieces that we cut
And that is what complicates air cooling all the fans are not uniform over a uniform surface that is uniform on both sides.
Correct ?
 

pictsidhe

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The big headache with air cooled engines is getting enough fin area with low enough thermal resistance that it is actually useful.
 

mcrae0104

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Lol. I like the patent , interesting stuff there.
I just can’t figure the relevance of the quote....
You said that "no one ever in all of history had discussed" your idea, and further that "if you can prove me wrong I would be perfectly willing to shut up..." The patent demonstrates that the idea has in fact been discussed before, with the U.S. patent office. That is the relevance of the quote. And now that you're playing dumb, it's abundantly obvious that you're just trolling.
 

Pilot-34

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Flights of fancy don't get the job done. Real stuff comes out of shops run by quiet, determined people who have studied as much as they could find on their subjects and who are willing to spend a lot of time and money on experimenting. Stuff is not invented on internet forums.
Flights of fantasy do not get the job done you’re correct but they do get the job started.

Real stuff comes out of shops run by quiet, determined people who have studied as much as they could
I think at some point most people that actually create things quit studying accept the amount of knowledge they have and start doing.
Real stuff comes out of .............who are willing to spend a lot of time and money on experimenting.
It’s not always about time and money sometimes you get lucky and it doesn’t take much time sometimes you have to get creative and find ways to work around the money problem

Stuff is not invented on internet forums.
No but it might be inspired here otherwise this forum would be pointless.
 

Pilot-34

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You said that "no one ever in all of history had discussed" your idea, and further that "if you can prove me wrong I would be perfectly willing to shut up..." The patent demonstrates that the idea has in fact been discussed before, with the U.S. patent office. That is the relevance of the quote. And now that you're playing dumb, it's abundantly obvious that you're just trolling.
OK now I see the problem.
That’s not what I said at all!
You missed the most important part.
You got the quote right but I think you focused on the wrong part of it

“Pilot-34 said:
No one ever in all history has ever discussed this idea with all of the technology available today available to them.“

Be sure to pay attention to the last part.

“with all of the technology available today available to them.“

See that’s the key that’s why it’s worth rehashing old designs it’s why often times the latest new thing comes from something very old
And that’s also why it’s a disservice for someone to jump into a thread about some thing and say it can’t be done because it wasn’t done in the past.
 
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WonderousMountain

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This old drawing wasn't very enlightening, but let me explain my thoughts. The engine blueprint I have been working on has liquid cooling passages. Blue circles - which go around the cylinder, emptying out between the cylinders in a pair. It's V-4 and that's how I get dry deck.

Okay, more relevantly, I want you to imagine every other tube, as a fin with fluid moving inside it. This would expose the coolant to possibly 4X surface area, compared to an unfinned side wall. I think that would give a reasonable chance of success.

Another possibility, is to use pistons & sleeves of a greater thermal stress tolerance, and surface coatings. Steel is a commercial variant.
side view.jpg
 

wsimpso1

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I explained the exact drawbacks that are well understood in the design of this very mature part of design for cooling. I have patents and have served on Patent Committees in two different industries. I understand creativity, new things, and how much work is involved in transforming. This not new. I explained how it can work and why it has been less effective and practical than the other routes. If there is progress to be made on this topic, you will make it against the resistance of the issues I detailed. That is where the challenges lie. The benefit in my calling these things out to you and any other dreamers is that you now have some idea of what you need to make progress against. Have fun.
 

Dan Thomas

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You said that "no one ever in all of history had discussed" your idea, and further that "if you can prove me wrong I would be perfectly willing to shut up..." The patent demonstrates that the idea has in fact been discussed before, with the U.S. patent office. That is the relevance of the quote. And now that you're playing dumb, it's abundantly obvious that you're just trolling.
This society now has a lot of people who think that history started when they were born. It's a major failing of our educational systems, and this ignorance is causing immense trouble. So many of these people think they are original in their thinking and really resent being told that their ideas have been tried and have failed.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

-John Heywood, 1546
 

Pilot-34

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Lol
I have to agree with you a lot of people think history started with their birth ,on the other hand when you’re looking at something new finding out that something Old failed isn’t really a big deal.
What I don’t get is why people are so quick to say it failed failed failed!
For instance in this very thread the second post threw in a bunch of irrelevant strawman so that they could pooh-pooh the idea.
Now honestly I don’t have a problem with the idea failing it may have failed for the last 500 years but I do have a problem when people Attempt to kill a thread before it had a chance to develop the idea.

I just don’t understand the urge to eat your young.
 

BJC

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I just don’t understand the urge to eat your young.
I don’t understand why people post a question, then discount responses that have been offered based on first hand experience.

I encourage you to proceed with your proposed engine configuration, and report back on your results.

What airframe would you use? What would you project the FWF weight to be? What HP would you project? What propeller would you use?

Thanks,


BJC
 

Tiger Tim

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What airframe would you use? What would you project the FWF weight to be? What HP would you project? What propeller would you use?
You almost come off sounding like you have something against a solution in search of a problem in search of a different solution...
 

pictsidhe

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Whenever I have a Really Amazing Idea (tm), I ask myself a question.
If this is so great, simple and like, totally awesome, man, why has nobody else done it? Sadly, I can usually work out why pretty quickly.

I find it a huge waste of time to try doing something that is never going to work.

For instance, I considered trying explain why this idea is not going to to work as the first reply. But I saw problems convincing the OP of that, so I left it for smarter people.

This is a technical discussion area. Most of the site is for the discussion of real and feasible things. Fantasy and other random nonsense belong in hangar flying.
 

Pilot-34

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I don’t understand why people post a question, then discount responses that have been offered based on first hand experience.

I encourage you to proceed with your proposed engine configuration, and report back on your results.

What airframe would you use? What would you project the FWF weight to be? What HP would you project? What propeller would you use?

Thanks,


BJC
Because you didn’t respond to the question ! (And others )all you seem to be trying to do was destroy the conversation.
Is there some sort of ego trip in the destroying as many threds as possible?

Would you answer every thread about wooden airplanes by saying it won’t work because Howard Hughes doesn’t have the Spruce goose in transatlantic service ?
 

Pilot-34

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I explained the exact drawbacks that are well understood in the design of this very mature part of design for cooling. I have patents and have served on Patent Committees in two different industries. I understand creativity, new things, and how much work is involved in transforming. This not new. I explained how it can work and why it has been less effective and practical than the other routes. If there is progress to be made on this topic, you will make it against the resistance of the issues I detailed. That is where the challenges lie. The benefit in my calling these things out to you and any other dreamers is that you now have some idea of what you need to make progress against. Have fun.
I was confused I have retracted my statements and once again would like to say I am sorry.
 
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