39th Western Workshop of the Experimental Soaring Association, div. SSA

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Victor Bravo

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Looks almost as easy to build as a Falco...

mcrae0104

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Log Member
Looks almost as easy to build as a Falco...
Aww heck, the trees do 90% of the work for you.

TerryM76

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HBA Supporter
I’m not familiar with the RF-2, but I’ll looks almost identical to the RF-4 which is a sweet flying plane.

Do you think I could build from these photos?
What could be done to modernize this design and lower the parts count. I need to go acquire an RF4 and see if we could reverse engineer it with folding wings and possibly have different methods of construction. Just a fun little aircraft that could fit within most people's budgets. low cost to operate, could be trailered, some soaring capability, and probably a few other benefits to be discovered.

Victor Bravo

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HBA Supporter
Terry, Mark Calder beat you to it by several years. He is doing exactly what you are thinking about. Mixed construction modernized version of RF-3. Ask Murry (MM4440) about it at ESA, he's in touch with Mr. Calder.

If you could find a set of Ka-6 wings, or something like that, you could basically bui ld a fuselage around this and do it in a lot less time. I wish I could say it was my idea, but that's how they came up with the AS-K14

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
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Log Member
What could be done to modernize this design and lower the parts count.

TerryM76

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HBA Supporter
Terry, Mark Calder beat you to it by several years. He is doing exactly what you are thinking about. Mixed construction modernized version of RF-3. Ask Murry (MM4440) about it at ESA, he's in touch with Mr. Calder.

If you could find a set of Ka-6 wings, or something like that, you could basically bui ld a fuselage around this and do it in a lot less time. I wish I could say it was my idea, but that's how they came up with the AS-K14
Is Mark calling it the "Robin"? I thought it might be smaller than an RF2.

Chris Young

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I don't know anything about the regulations in the US concerning glider towing, but in France it is possible to tow with amateur built airplane and even with ultralights.

The aeroclub where I fly airplanes has a large glider section and they are towed using either an ACBA Midour 3 (E-AB, designed and built there) or a Dynamic WT-9 ultralight.

If some people are trying to push for this to be authorized in other countries, they can probably benefit from past experience in France to show this is perfectly adapted (the Midour being specifically designed for glider towing has good climb performance with very low noise).

Toobuilder

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I'd think a Pawnee, Agtruck or similar with a LS/airboat redrive and a fixed prop would make a great glider tug. That is the exact duty cycle that beats aircraft engines to death but a big V8 wouldn't even sweat.

Tehachapi is a 5 minute flight for me, but alas, we're flying to Lake Havasu to participate in high horsepower aquatic mayhem that weekend.

mm4440

Well-Known Member
An update:
39th Annual Experimental Soaring Association Western Workshop – 2019

Friday afternoon August 30-Monday September 2, 2019 (Labor Day Weekend)

Mountain Valley Airport (L94), Tehachapi, California

NOTES:

· Lectures in Byard Hangar

· Registration and merchandise in the Armstrong Hangar.

· Registration: $10/day or$20/both days. Students free, speakers free. Register the day of event, no preregistration needed

· For Potluck BBQs – bring meat (if desired) and drink for yourself plus something to share. Utensils, plates, cups, etc. provided.

· For Saturday night auction – donations of items gratefully accepted – clean out your workshop and bring that white elephant, which might be someone else’s treasure…

SCHEDULE – subject to change

FRIDAY August 30
5:30PM - Potluck BBQ at the Byard Hangar (See notes above)

SATURDAY August 31

8:30 – 9:20 AM – Jeff Byard – Soaring, Something for Everybody

9:30-10:20 – Neal Pfeiffer – Concept(s) for a Homebuilt Soaring Motorglider

10:30-11:20 – Bob Kuykendall –Project Wrap-up

11:30-12:30 – Dean Sigler – Silent Air Taxi, Progress Report on Building the World’s Cheapest Electric Aircraft

12:30 – 2:00 PM LUNCH

2-2:50 – Paulo Iscold – Nixus Project

3-3:50 – Eric Stewart – Destructive Testing & Materials Characterization for an Experimental Race Plane

4-5 - Paul Gaines – Understanding Another Stagnation Point- a Discussion About Aviation & the Next Generation

5:30 PM – Potluck BBQ Dinner – Byard Hangar (see notes above)

7:00 PM – ESA Auction – Auctioneers – Dan Rihn and Doug Fronius

mm4440

Well-Known Member
SUNDAY September 1
8:30 – 9:20 AM – Phil Barnes – Aircraft Energy Gain from an Atmosphere in Motion

9:30 – 11:30 – Sailplane Building in the 21st Century – Panel – Bowers, Rozansky, Kuykendall, Rihn, Armstrong and Riley

11:30 – 1PM – LUNCH

2-2:50 – Andrew Angellotti – Developing Flight Test Instrumentation Without the \$30,000 Toilet Seat

3-3:50 – Murry Rozansky – Homebuilt Tow Planes, the Silver Bullets to Save Soaring

4-5 – Taras Kiceniuk, Jr. – Topic to be announced, guaranteed very interesting

5:30PM – Potluck BBQ Dinner – Byard Hangar (see notes above)

6:45PM – ESA Wrap-Up and Thanks

7:00PM – Keynote Speaker – Al Bowers – Apollo 11

MONDAY September 2 - Flying and fun and visiting and cleanup

For soaring flights, tows, camping – contact Skylark North at Mountain Valley Airport – 661-822-5267 (closed Tuesdays)/ Mountain Valley RV Park is onsite -661– 822-1213.

Questions? Contact Janice Armstrong – 661-619-7750 or [email protected] .

ESA Website- esoaring.com

TerryM76

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HBA Supporter
Terry, Mark Calder beat you to it by several years. He is doing exactly what you are thinking about. Mixed construction modernized version of RF-3. Ask Murry (MM4440) about it at ESA, he's in touch with Mr. Calder.

If you could find a set of Ka-6 wings, or something like that, you could basically bui ld a fuselage around this and do it in a lot less time. I wish I could say it was my idea, but that's how they came up with the AS-K14
Looks like it might be a good discussion item for ESA on Sunday morning at 9:30 panel discussion.looks like Dan Rihn was interested in possibly kitting an RF4 about a decade ago.

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
I'm going to try very hard to be there. It's going to be a particular challenge this year.

I understand that the same videographer we had last year is going to film the lectures again. If that happens, whether or not I'm there, I'll edit and post the lectures to the ESA YouTube channel, like I did last year. If any of you are unaware of those, the channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG9NEZfEDe8ro4oqtXpXQQg

Dr. Bowers' talk about his latest work on non-elliptical lift distributions has been particularly popular, but the other lectures are very interesting as well.

plncraze

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HBA Supporter
Thanks for posting the videos! And get Mark Calder to update the Robin website!

BoKu

Pundit
HBA Supporter
FYI I've traded places with Andrew Angellotti; I'll be doing my project wrapup 2:00-2:50 on Sunday.

Victor Bravo

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HBA Supporter
Bob are you going on Saturday? I sent you an e-mail about a landing gear, and I'd like to talk to you about it at ESA...

BoKu

Pundit
HBA Supporter
Bob are you going on Saturday? I sent you an e-mail about a landing gear, and I'd like to talk to you about it at ESA...
I'll respond tonight. I won't be at ESA on Saturday, only Sunday.

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
The calendar is now up on the ESA website, at www.esoaring.com. Pretty much the same as you've already seen, but purrty.

TerryM76

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I just want to say it was a great privilege to attend this year and be amongst some of our HBA folks. It is quite refreshing to spend time with like-minded individuals and talk about airplanes and such. I always look forward to being at the Workshop and am always a bit sad to leave when it's over. I am fortunate that my wife attends with me and has become friends with several members of the group.

There were some great topics presented this year but I always want to hear and see more about actual building and flying of "home built" gliders, etc. Is it just me or is it that most topics nowadays are about theoretical projects requiring the investment of bazillions of dollars and teams of engineers and control by autonomous systems that involve no real human interaction once placed into motion?

Thank heaven that we have Bob K who is fighting the good fight and producing kits that are supporting our interest in this great sport of soaring flight. While I am not the greatest fan of "plastic fantastic" aircraft I can still appreciate all he does to inspire and promote these aviation activities.

There is so much more that could be said but my ability to put it into actual words is sometimes beyond me.....VB is so much more articulate and he is a good spokesperson in my mind. I look forward to his commentary from this workshop.

Again, I want to express my sincere appreciation to these genuine "Mad Monks" that volunteer, and prepare and present us with this opportunity to come together to learn, be heard and be a part of this great brother/sisterhood.

Victor Bravo

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HBA Supporter
SteveL and I drove up, and it was certainly good to see Topaz and TerryM76 since it had been a while. It was great to meet PiperCruisin' in person for the first time too.

As usual, HBA member and ESA president MM4440 is doing a great job of trying to build and strengthen ESA.

Paolo Iscold's presentation was just incredible, even though 2/3 of the technology was far above my simpleton's level of comprehension. A dedicated record-setting non-production sailplane with a 28 meter span and aspect ratio of 53 is just mind-boggling!

ESA is certainly morphing, and I'm not sure there is or is not anything that anyone can do about it. Perhaps embracing all the technology is necessary for survival, but I agree 100% with Terry that we also need the BobK's and Mike Sandlin's to always provide good options on the "old-school" or "stick and rudder" level.

There really needs to be some sort of a design discussion thread on HBA for a 21st Century club sailplane, or 21st Century 1-26 glider, that can be built on the cheap. Yes self-launch is better, and yes achieving 40-1 L/D is better, and yes the market is not as big as for powered aircraft. But I believe gliders are still the key to inexpensive flight for the average weekend homebuilder.