yamaha 1200 genisis motor 120 hp 145#

[oahupilot]

Hey I have not had time to work on this project as work has beern keeping me very busy, lately. As soon as I get time to get a plan together I will post it here

 

[Bil4381]

Redrives, failures and adequate lubrication.
I read the Thielert engines are having redrive gearbox failures. Often the lubricant isn't up to the task.
At the bottom end are chainsaw oils to lubricate the chain in a lost oil system Basically they can whatever is left in the oil tank.
At the high end and highly formulated are oil required to lubricate worm grear drives under extreme pressure, 100% humidity or even superheated steam and high temperatures say 500F and beyond. These oil continue to be made today because agricultural feed mills use worm drive gearboxes under these exact conditions to drive the rollers that grind the feed.
Thus the tourist railroads and live steam railroads are able to buy a selection of Steam Cylinder Oils from several oil companies. I believe that recently the range has expanded. The essential product is SAE 680 Steam Cylinder Oil. It is quite a complicated blend but the basics are highly refined gear oil and tallow which is beef fat. In some cases they use synthetic tallow.
The SAE grades now available are 480, 680, 800, 1000, and 1200. The 1000 and 1200 grades usually contain graphite as a wear inhibitor. I use SAE 680 in my steam locomotives for everything. The boiler heat is sufficient to cause the oil to fly to the bearings.
All of this is to say if I had a redrive incorporating a gearbox, I'd use SAE 480 in 3 seasons. It would probably be necessary to warm the gearcase in spring, fall and winter. They also make very fine gear oils in these SAE viscosity ranges but without tallow. One of these is Shell Valvata ie without the Tallow. Mobil make a line of Cylinder Oils branded Cylessic. Typically it comes in a 5 gal pail for $50. The tallow does start to smell after years of storage but it still lubricates well. However it does not hold water in suspension and should be stored in smaller cans such that there is no air space in the containers, to eliminate water condensation and settling in the bottom of the containers.

 

[oahupilot]

frame with a safety factor of 3 at 10g, with max yaw, max pitch, max thrust

does not exceed ultimate tensile strength of material

 

[oahupilot]

So the frame design to adapt the yamaha motor is a direct bolt in swap for all vw deihl case type aeroconversion motors. The frame maintains the same thrust line as vw, allows a rotax gearbox to be adapted to the yamaha engine, while haveing a smaller cross section area(less drag) then a vw when assembled. The over all assembly is also lighter then vw engien but has cg further forward then a vw, so their is no need to mount it further forward in fueselage like a jabiru engine. In order to improve drag and balance the cg of the motor my next stop will be to build a under slung radiator like a p51 mustang.

i am still thinking about gun mounts

 

[Schmleff]

Keep them coming. I am curious to see how the thing sits in a cowl.

 

[n3480h1]

I think the M61 Vulcan 20mm Cannon would be a nice accessory.

Seriously, thanks for your work to develop a very interesting version of Sonerai. There is much we can learn from your considerable effort.

Tom

 

[oahupilot]

I actually have a 20 page engineering report that I did on this frame desing, I wouldn't mind posting it on the site once I delete some of the dimensional data of the cad drawings. I dont want to post the dimensional data on the cad because this is version 1 and their are two stress concentration I am not totally crazy about. I dont want somebody running off and trying to build it just yet. The problem at the stress concentrations is that it exceeds the yeild value of the 4130 by 10% in a worse case application. Granted the model in ANSYS did not account for all factors of assembly, like I did not include the bolt for bending strength or I skipped modeling the weld thickness. ANSYS can model anything as long as you have the computer power to do it, I own a netbook and I took it to its limit to run this model. The frame wont break but it will permenantly strech, granted this is at 3 times the actuall force values the frame will ever experience, also I left some strength on the table when I simplified the assembly. My definition of a worst case situation is 10g load down, 3.3 g lateral, 3 times the torque, twice the thrust, propeller precession factor from pitching up 90 degrees in one second, and p factor from yawing 180 degrees in one second. I am almost certian the soneria would have fallen apart at that load. Another thing I want to look at is where I can cut down on weight and material if you look at the stress plot the majority of the frame is under loaded(in blue) by a huge factor, so its wasted material.

my all up weight with motor, gearbox, prop, and frame is 165lb with 130hp
I plan on using a 63 inch three blade carbon fiber prop with ground adjustable pitch.

fuel burn at cruise is calculated at 2.5 gph

The cowling will of course be fitted for this motor and will not require any protusions from the general shape. The cowling will have a spitfire/p-51 shape with an air inlet either on the side or under the prop.

 

[phzabriskie]

Pretty cool, I would miss the cowl cheeks, but our friend in Argentina has very sleek lines with his Sonerai. P-51 radiator scoop you say? 8)

 

[racer956]

This sounds like a pretty fool proof idea. Any new advancements on it. I have a freind of mine looking for a 1200 for my sonerai. Where would I find the redrives for this engine. thanks

 

[oahupilot]

I just got back to Hawaii from Iraq and have not had much time to work on this idea. I keep contemplating going to the genesis 150fi or one of the newer webber mpe V4 engines witch would weigh in at the same weight but have even more power. The MPE V4 comes in a 200 hp and NA motor and 300 hp Turbo motor while only weighing in at 180 #. THe genesis 150fi comes with with 150hp at 160lbs and can be turbocharged to 250 hp. If you want a redrive that has some proven track time buy a rotax gearbox. When I asked the other redrive manufacturers for specs on tolerance and fatigue life of their re drives I got a lot of empty emails. It seems a lot of the other re drive guys engineer by trial and error with little actual engineering analysis. I want to get back to work on this project , but I have no time at the moment.

 

[racer956]

Do you have any plans for the motor mount in the pictures that are posted or where I can get some.

 

[brunopitts]

I have never and I'll never accepted that someone try to destroyed my dream, so go ahead with yours.

 

[oahupilot]

Racer956

The plans are of my own design and work, so you wont find them on the internet. I have no intention of releasing the plans at the moment. I have not completed all aspects of testing and design, currently its still a prototype. As a professional engineer I have certain responsibilities not to endanger the public by releasing a product before its ready.

I am very allergic to lawyers so I wont release this till its operation and tested in my plane.

Brunopitts

My comment on other redrive builders was not to imply the stopped my progress, but to clarify they were not able to provide critical data on their product. Its like trying to buy a motorcycle helmet from a guy who wont tell you if its better then wearing a salad bowl for crash protection.

 

[racer956]

Where would one find one of these genisis engines. What sled does it come out of. I have looked on the internet andhve not been able to find any of them. Is there any links for somone who sells an adapter plate for his engine

 

[n3480h1]

Um, google. I found many pages of info on the Yamaha Genesis, including some on conversions. Neat engine.

Tom

 

[oahupilot]

Racer956

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/member.php?u=2578

you can contact racer, I think his real name is Todd, he can source you a motor for like 2500 dollars. He also was pioneer on this engine conversion for autogyros. I contacted him over 2 years ago to do a collaboration for the soneria, originally he agreed to build some parts for me, but nothing came of the venture. I was going to pay him for his work and do the design work, but he never came through. In the end he over committed himself I think to too many projects and he had some personal problems to sort as well, that got in the way. I think their are still customers of his waiting for the autogyro kit. If you want to buy a motor from him that might not be a bad idea but I wont recommend you buy his kit.

The other thing watch out for is the sonerai is not an autogyro! I spent some time working out the loads for fixed wing plane which are higher then an autogyro. Another thing to be mindful of is the hype people give certain parts or products, a lot of people will tell you that this part will work in airplane because it works in monster truck, sounds good but its probably wrong. Propellers generate the worst type of load for metal fatigue, completely reversed axial bending. So be careful

 

[sotaro]

Oahu,
Is the Genesis engine project on a back burner or can you give us an update?
Thanks. I read the entire 37 pages of the gyro thread on this engine. I am sorry your experience with Todd was not what you hoped for. Do you think it difficult to invert or lay down the Genesis engine?

 

[thomefran]

Todd has worked out the problems with this engine and its adaptation for a gyro. I don't know if it will work on any other type of aircraft. I sure it will but don't quote me on it.

I rode in front of this engine at Mentone in Aug 2009 with Ron Awad in his two seat Dominator. Loud but quite impressive. Lots of power.

 

[oahupilot]

I have dealt with Todd a long time ago he kinda flaked out on me so I stopped dealing with him. He has long history of late delivery. Also his motor adaption was designed on good luck with no design study, he can not answer you how much side load the bearings in the gearbox can support. I did a computer FEA model of my mounts and designed the mount in accordance with FAA guidelines, Ron slapped his together. I dont want to take away from the fact the Ron did build it on his own and pioneered a new motor adaption, I admire his spirit of innovation. Its not the thrust loads that bother me but the loads imposed by propeller during a 5 or 6 g turn.

I have been very busy as of lately with exiting the army, preparing to move back to the mainland, working as engineering consultant, and planing my Tennessee Oregon Buenos Aires motorcycle trip. So yes the motor has been placed on the back burner, but from March till June I have no commitments and could build the mount up, the only problem is their are no sleds in Hawaii. I would consider finishing this project if some people pitched in on the development cost. In exchange for development cash and help sourcing a motor, after the project is complete and operational I would build all the components at material cost for the contributors. I am looking at a total development cost of 6000 dollars for the prototype this includes all the jiggs and other production tooling. Any profits produced from commercial sales will be split amongst contributors. I would put forth 2500 dollars of my own cash towards development plus my time, contributors would make up the other 3500 dollars, any cost over runners would be covered by me. Every contributor would split the remaining 3500 dollars evenly.


The other option is if I receive 5000 dollars in donations of any size I would complete the project and publish the cad drawings under Creative Commons licensee free of charge.

 

[o2koold]

We have lots of sleds here. And lots of drunks that like to reck them up. What would one of the engines belong to? I will keep an eye out. I know a few people here in WY that sleds are their life. With spring coming, so will the deals. It will most likely be a long season here though, due to the huge amount of snow we've had.
Scott R