Non- Biased Engine Reviews -Viking

Discussion in 'General Auto Conversion Discussion' started by flienlow, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. Jan 22, 2020 #1

    flienlow

    flienlow

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    I have been looking at the viking 130. I know a guy that bought one, but lost contact with him and dont know if he ever got his plane flying.
    I have been trying to find proud owners posting videos and accolades, however, all I see is posting from Viking Engines. I want to hear from customers themselves to see what their reviews are.
     
  2. Jan 22, 2020 #2

    Wanttaja

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  3. Jan 22, 2020 #3

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    When you do find actual previous customers of that company, and those previous customers describe their experiences, I believe you will find their overall experiences very compelling and informative.
     
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  4. Jan 22, 2020 #4

    BJC

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    You are too kind, VB.

    Hint to the OP: you can change the name of the company, but if you don’t change the people, then nothing really has changed.


    BJC
     
  5. Jan 23, 2020 #5

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    I've been accused of a lot of things in my life, but that !?!

    Only my dog thinks I'm kind, and even that usually involves a piece of my hamburger.
     
  6. Jan 23, 2020 #6

    flienlow

    flienlow

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    So... Lycomings have failed in flight, Continental's have failed in flight, Rotax has failed in Flight, Corvair has failed in flight, LS engine has failed in flight, Jabiru and so has the Vikings. It seems just about all of them have. What can be done? Perhaps one person is not so savory, but I guess this is why we ask no? I was just wanting to find if there were any people flying that were happy and without issue. What engine should one consider? The Rotax?
     
  7. Jan 23, 2020 #7

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    The correct engine for your British Taylorcraft Auster AOP Mk.VI is the 145HP DH Gipsy Major.

    I'm assuming you are building an Auster, because you didn't mention anything specific in your post, and the Auster is my favorite airplane.

    Problem solved, question answered, great wisdom transferred... check :)

    Oh... what... you're not building an Auster? Well then, what are you putting the engine in?
     
  8. Jan 23, 2020 #8

    Wayne

    Wayne

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    Flienlow - which airframe are you considering? Knowing that will help with engine choice. As far as failures you are, of course, correct. I think the others are trying to highlight the culture/people of the company as much as anything. I have no experience with the Viking but am very familiar with the traditional power plants, and Rotax 4 Strokes. I own a 130 HP UL Power (@ 3300 RPM or 115 HP at a more usable 2700 RPM). Have not run it yet but hopefully in the spring!
     
  9. Jan 23, 2020 #9

    Chris Matheny

    Chris Matheny

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    I asked Jan some basic questions about the engines he was using and concerns I have based on my engine building background. My questions were met with defensive stonewalling and no answers to my questions. They can do anything he says, because he says and basic metallurgy and stress loads be damned. He must be exempt to some physics that all of us are ruled by. That interaction told me all I needed to know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  10. Jan 23, 2020 #10

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    If he's exempted from ethics why shouldn't he be exempted from physics too?
     
  11. Jan 23, 2020 #11

    flienlow

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    Wayne- I am not sure what I am going to do, but I want to do something. The CH750 has me concerned as I have watched too many skins wobble in the prob wash. I feel it would be a great starter plane, but afraid of resale value. IMHO Any VANs hands down are far superior to anything out there, but you will spend a life time crafting them. So the RV12 is the only one I would do. The S21 Rans is looking very good to me, with a kitfox second.
     
  12. Jan 23, 2020 #12

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    If you don't mind me butting in, the Zenair CH-750 is a fairly robust aircraft as-is. You can also easily add very light stiffeners to the skins, or make "creased" or "beaded" skins like the Savannah aircraft. All fabric covered airplanes drum and vibrate a little bit in the prop wash. Many of them have been flying safely for almost 75 years now.
     
  13. Jan 23, 2020 #13

    cheapracer

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    I was involved in an internet interaction just yesterday in a post about Viking engines where the claimed "Co-Owner" of Viking, Alissa Daniel was involved, apparently Jan Eggenfellner's Fiance.

    She was quite an aggressive poster, and attacking those who were basically supporting her, such as she claimed near 1000 Vikings and a poster showed the actual FAA registered numbers.

    Then someone asked for dyno charts, she said no one does that, I mentioned Aeromomentum, does and she started attacking Aeromomentum! Not a good industry move, it's a segment that should be supporting each other to move forward, Luddites are the enemy.

    It's not unrealistic to suggest from whom she has leaned her attitude.

    I have looked at many companies and their offerings and attitudes, I'll pass on Viking. Aeromomentum stands on top for attitude, and they sell all their components separately too. There's more to a product than just the product.


    Been around since 1986 (the 701), and still made today. Personally I think one of the most successful planes ever put on the market, if it was a Vans there would be a tribute thread here to them with candles burning in front of little statues of Buddha..

    .. even if the wings fell off.

    Seek out Mark kyle on Facebook and have a chat about the Rans. He personally went to the company a year ago, ordered one, and it arrived recently. https://www.facebook.com/mark.kyle.980
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  14. Jan 23, 2020 #14

    Wanttaja

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    Well, you see, that's the beautiful thing about the engine types in the FAA registry. You can use them to prove whatever you want.

    Using my 1 January 2020 version of the registry, I count (drum roll) 94 airplanes that state they have a Viking engine.

    ...But, of course, someone might claim that *ALL* homebuilts with Honda engines are actually Vikings. That would add another ~200 airplanes.

    But hark, there are about 6,600 airplanes that merely show "AMAT/EXP" as an engine type. One could claim that all 6,600 had Viking engines.

    Mind you, other folks are claiming all 6,600 airplanes have Ford engines, or VWs, or....

    I consider my accident database as being a more-reliable indicator as to the number of engines in the homebuilt fleet. My database of ~4200 accidents has ten Viking engined-aircraft. This would not be consistent with 1,000 in the registry.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  15. Jan 23, 2020 #15

    Wanttaja

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    For those playing at home, here is a summary of the number of accidents per auto engine type.
    Engine Type# of Accidents
    Subaru183
    Volkswagen163
    Chevy Non-Corvair47
    Mazda21
    Corvair20
    Ford16
    Viking10
    Keep in mind that the Viking has not been on the market as long as most of these other types...it only shows up on my database over the past five years or so. That is part of the reason the overall numbers are so low. There were three accidents involving Viking-powered aircraft in 2018.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  16. Jan 23, 2020 #16

    cheapracer

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    But they might use those stats to prove they are the safest on the market anyway, lol :D

    I repeat, I have no problem with the product, but I have seen enough actual posting from the CEO of Viking with my own eyes, not the rumour mill, to not be interested.

    I was kind of hoping that Aeromomentum was going to do the same Honda engine, and I believe they were in development, wonder what happened there?
     
  17. Jan 23, 2020 #17

    Wayne

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    Hi!
    We have a Zenith Cruzer that we built here at 1C5, and the one I'm building is almost done - you'll see an update post in a moment. They are very nice little planes, roomy, great visibility - like a kind of modern, chubby, Cessna 150. I have about 40 hours in them and the only oil canning I have witnessed is as a kind of stall or "out of coordination"warning.We say she is talking to us and letting us know what's happening to the air - works great as a reminder LOL.

    The RV12 is a lovely little bird - my friend has a great one. He is now building the Rans 21 and it is going together fast. The RV 12 is like a swiss watch compared to the first Zenith we built which is powered by a new Continental O200 D with just headers. So manly and American. We love it! Of course the Rotax 912 is quieter and not as brutish :) The Rotax and Continental swing nice long props - but for my Cruzer I'm using the UL Power which swings a shorter prop as it gets it's power at higher RPMS so they have to watch for tip speed. Draggy airplanes do better with longer props is my understanding.

    If you stay in the 100 HP area, and you are going Light Sport or have a draggy airplane, the Rotax is a superb option. If you want air cooled and direct drive then you have the traditional engines or the UL Power. THe UL is full fadec, lightish (176 pounds installed) and modern. It has some downsides though - needs MoGas as it hates lead, and mine needs 93 Octane. It is also newer so less sample size for issues. US support has been very good for me, and they do a nice job of posting service bulletins. Don't forget though, that I have yet to fly behind mine although I'm closing in on that date.

    I know there are a bunch of other options (D-Motor / AeroMomentum / many others) but if you want a more or less plug and play experience you will go with the firewall forward recommendation from the manufacturer so you can buy the FWF kits and trade money for time.

    One other thing that might make a big difference is the familiarity of your local resources with engine type. Some areas have very little or zero engine knowledge outside the incumbents so that might be an issue if you are not comfortable servicing your own motor.

    Final point - if you are going light sport with some designs like Zenith who give you many options for power don't forget weight. Just because Zenith say's you can put any motor in as long as it's less than 350 pounds (I might be off on the weight) does not mean that's a good idea given the current light sport max gross of 1320 pounds.
     
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  18. Jan 23, 2020 #18

    flienlow

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    Please dont take my comments about the CH750 and an insult by any means. Hell, I may even build one. In fairness, I am probably guilty of seeing too many cobbled together. I do like the fact that you can get 3 seats in the 750, but it is really slow. I am also worried that after a 70+k investment, I would have little resale value should my wife need to sell in my absences. Back the my point the Lure of a cheap engine is very appealing as these engine prices are nothing but false economy IMHO. But....I dont make them, so I need to buy from someone that does. :)
     
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  19. Jan 23, 2020 #19

    Wayne

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    No offense taken regards the Zenith although you are talking about the new one and mine is the original two seater. Your best bet for resale may be the RV, or honestly a certified Cessna or other smaller certified that might also get made Light Sport one day if FAA ups the gross. Of course the airport bums will tell you “If you want to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large one !” Lol
     
  20. Jan 23, 2020 #20

    bmcj

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    Ron, is there any way to tell how many of those Subarus were done by the same person that developed Viking?

    Also, total number of each type flying would provide good context for comparison (to derive failure rates).
     
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