# Is there a 'complete unit' with nav/com/gps/adsb/xpnder?

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#### pfarber

##### Well-Known Member
Has anyone found a 'total package' like this?

I know there are units that have nav/com/gps but not sure if there is one with an ads-b OUT and xpnder.

I would think that it would cost less to but an all in one unit.... or would not?

I am not IFR certified yet, and I would like to be able have the gear that would allow the most access to airports (I'll fully admit I have no idea what the terms are).

Is it correct to assume that I can fly IFR with Foreflight as long as I have a WAAS/RAIM GPS and then would only need to worry about the type of approach procedures I would need the proper gear for? Is that even a correct way to visualize how IFR works?

#### GeeZee

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I’d be worried about a failure of one subsystem. With “all in one“ if any of those things break then then the entire box comes out for repair.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Well, it doesn't have NAV either. Not that I'd bother putting a VOR/ILS/LOC unit in a plane anymore - if you have GPS approach capability, you're far more capable than with the NAV, but that's what the OP asked for. So with the 375, you'd need a NAV/COM, not just a COM.
Yes, it navs just fine. Used as a noun nav is simply an abbreviation for navigation, which is how I interpreted the OP. Never heard that nav and VOR/ILS/LOC are mutually inclusive.

#### pfarber

##### Well-Known Member
for IFR your GPS has to be an “approved” IFR Navigator.
This is new. What do you mean 'approved IFR Navigator'? Is this TSO'd equipment??

The EAA says this: Equipping a Homebuilt for IFR Operations (eaa.org)

I did mention that I am not IFR anything yet and still not up to speed on terms... just planning to see what I will need to spend.

It seems that I can equip for IFR without a GPS. How big of a chunk of airports will I lose access to if I omit a GPS navigator and rely on VOR/ILS/DME? From what I understand these services are slowly going away, and most smaller airports will not have these.

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#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
This one? GARMIN GNX 375 KIT WITH 4FT EXP PIGTAIL | Aircraft Spruce

Not an approved IFR navigator and no VHF capability. Looks like a good VFR only option, but that is not what the OP was asking about.
Not sure what ACS is selling but our GNX 375 is IFR including LPV approaches.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
This is new. What do you mean 'approved IFR Navigator'? Is this TSO'd equipment??

The EAA says this: Equipping a Homebuilt for IFR Operations (eaa.org)
Your EAA info is dated. The landscape for technology in the cockpit is changing rapidly, especially with the FAA philosophy and safety continuum. I suggest getting the most current data.

And yes, you can fly IFR with a VOR and ILS receiver/display. You won’t like it.

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#### 4redwings

##### Member
Back in the day, COM/NAV meant a VHF radio and a VOR reciever. If you were fancy you'd have an ILS or two and maybe DME. Then RNAV came along that did fancy stuff with DME and VOR to let you go somewhere other than direct to/from a VOR station. Sometimes a self-contained INS (inertial navigation system) was added to RNAV, primarily for out-of-VOR-range navigation (ocean crossings).

Then came GPS, and NAV (the label on the button) became ubiquitous for going from point A to point B, until you threw in vertical climb and descent guidance and it became LNAV (lateral navigation) to distinguish it from VNAV (vertical navigation).

So if you say NAV, especially in a sentence that includes COM, many of us older guys are going to assume you mean a VOR(/ILS) radio receiver. It does help to clarify one's meaning when using the now universal word "NAV." When I see nav in lower case my assumptions broaden but that's just me. Eventually we old-school NAV guys will die out, just like the VORs.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
You asked if you could fly IFR with Fourflight. One has to assume you want to fly IFR with Fourflight , if you say it. No backtracking that you are not flying IFR, and it doesn’t matter, if you are asking about capacity to do so.

#### GeeZee

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Your EAA info is dated. The landscape for technology in the cockpit is changing rapidly, especially with the FAA philosophy and safety continuum. I suggest getting the most current data.

And yes, you can fly IFR with a VOR and ILS receiver/display. You won’t like it.
What Mr. Turd and wsimpso1 said. IFR Navigators are TSO and are pretty pricey by most of our standards. There are frequent discussions about using old used (cheap) equipment for what’s called “light IFR” ( punching through a cloud layer on an otherwise good weather day). There seems to be 2 camps on that philosophy one says yea it a reasonable thing the other says no such thing as light IFR.

#### gtae07

##### Well-Known Member
This one? GARMIN GNX 375 KIT WITH 4FT EXP PIGTAIL | Aircraft Spruce

Not an approved IFR navigator and no VHF capability. Looks like a good VFR only option, but that is not what the OP was asking about.
The GNX-375 is a TSO’ed IFR GPS with approach capability, and a legal 1090ES ADS-B Out transponder, in one box. The note about only available for experimental has nothing to do with whether it’s IFR legal or not. It’s just that Garmin requires you to work through one of their certified dealers/installers if you want to put it in a certified aircraft.

I don’t think anyone makes an all-in-one IFR GPS/Com/ADS-B Out unit.

What’s going to be the cheapest/best approach (as they may not be the same) for OP to get IFR capability might depend on what‘s already installed in the airplane. Do you have glass already, or steam? If steam, do you have gyros or just basic VFR? What do you have for Com? Do you have a Mode C transponder already? What’s your budget?

IMHO if you don’t already have gyros and a vacuum system, it might be more worth your while to invest in some level of glass, which could be anything from a GRT Mini or Garmin G5 up to a “big screen” like a Skyview, G3X, Horizon, or AFS system. There are lots of ways to remove the dermal layer from this feline, and the cost/benefit equation has lots of steps in it...

#### pfarber

##### Well-Known Member
The GNX-375 is a TSO’ed IFR GPS with approach capability, and a legal 1090ES ADS-B Out transponder, in one box. The note about only available for experimental has nothing to do with whether it’s IFR legal or not. It’s just that Garmin requires you to work through one of their certified dealers/installers if you want to put it in a certified aircraft.

I don’t think anyone makes an all-in-one IFR GPS/Com/ADS-B Out unit.

What’s going to be the cheapest/best approach (as they may not be the same) for OP to get IFR capability might depend on what‘s already installed in the airplane. Do you have glass already, or steam? If steam, do you have gyros or just basic VFR? What do you have for Com? Do you have a Mode C transponder already? What’s your budget?

IMHO if you don’t already have gyros and a vacuum system, it might be more worth your while to invest in some level of glass, which could be anything from a GRT Mini or Garmin G5 up to a “big screen” like a Skyview, G3X, Horizon, or AFS system. There are lots of ways to remove the dermal layer from this feline, and the cost/benefit equation has lots of steps in it...
I am starting from scratch and want to try and flesh out a path the won't involve a rebuild in a year or two because I didn't make the right initial decisions.

My initial thoughts are no, I can't put a ton of money into IFR gear. And since I'll freely admit that I don't know (other than reading very contradicting viewpoints) I was hoping there was a 'box' that would have all/most if what I need at a sane price.

So: reading the FARs I can go without a GPS nav but will still need certain equipment to fly IFR (either steam or glass).

BUT if I go down the no-GPS path, what % (WAG is fine) of airports will I not have access to because of my limited IFR setup? 20%? 50%? 80%? From a cursory look, it seems that most smaller airports would have some sort of GPS approach?

My aviation decisions are 80% based off cost. I'll learn and fly IFR without GPS if GPS gear is simply to much. It might be a limitation, but I'd rather fly anything than not at all.

Sorry for being all over the place with questions.. but I did admit that I have almost no idea of what I was doing.