Build your own HO229 WW2 German Jet Fighter!!

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Aerowerx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
5,549
Location
Marion, Ohio
It was a scimitar shaped flying wing, based on one that the Germans tried in the 1930s. No rudder.

I don't remember any details, except that it didn't work.
 

cblink.007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
215
Location
Texas, USA
Radar cross setion!
Thanks to some articles and a NatGeo documentary boiling over with a severe case of confirmation bias, far too many want to believe that the Ho-229 was designed as a "stealth fighter".... just like those who blindly believe the myth that a flying wing requires computers to fly.

In the words of Judge Judy: "Just a second!"

The context for radar evasion did not even exist at the time those aircraft were developed, as radar was still an emerging technology. So no, these aircraft were not designed without vertical surfaces for radar evasion; it was intended to reduce drag and increase effeciency. It was during the YB-49's testing when it was serendipitously discovered that radar had a difficult time picking up the aircraft at certain angles relative to the radar station. But this was only part of the solution.

It was not until 1964, when Pyotr Ufimtsev, the chief scientist of the Moscow Institute for Radio Engineering, published a seminal paper titled Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, that opened the door for an aircraft to be designed with passive radar evasion in mind. This led directly to the Hopeless Diamond-Have Blue XST proof of concept demonstrators.

In my youth, I wanted to believe the Ho-229 stealth fighter narrative as well, but intensive studies of all-wing aircraft while in engineering/graduate school and many years of industry experience steered me to the correct narrative.

Call me overtly partial to the original design methodology of the Horten birds of years gone by, but it's a consequence of being a blood relative!

All this said, it would be so neat to resurrect the Ho-229 & truly explore the potential it had! I know there is a group out there building one, and I wish them all the luck in the world!
 

Yellowhammer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
107
Thanks to some articles and a NatGeo documentary boiling over with a severe case of confirmation bias, far too many want to believe that the Ho-229 was designed as a "stealth fighter".... just like those who blindly believe the myth that a flying wing requires computers to fly.

In the words of Judge Judy: "Just a second!"

The context for radar evasion did not even exist at the time those aircraft were developed, as radar was still an emerging technology. So no, these aircraft were not designed without vertical surfaces for radar evasion; it was intended to reduce drag and increase effeciency. It was during the YB-49's testing when it was serendipitously discovered that radar had a difficult time picking up the aircraft at certain angles relative to the radar station. But this was only part of the solution.

It was not until 1964, when Pyotr Ufimtsev, the chief scientist of the Moscow Institute for Radio Engineering, published a seminal paper titled Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, that opened the door for an aircraft to be designed with passive radar evasion in mind. This led directly to the Hopeless Diamond-Have Blue XST proof of concept demonstrators.

In my youth, I wanted to believe the Ho-229 stealth fighter narrative as well, but intensive studies of all-wing aircraft while in engineering/graduate school and many years of industry experience steered me to the correct narrative.

Call me overtly partial to the original design methodology of the Horten birds of years gone by, but it's a consequence of being a blood relative!

All this said, it would be so neat to resurrect the Ho-229 & truly explore the potential it had! I know there is a group out there building one, and I wish them all the luck in the world!

I am very familiar with each point you make. The Russia academic paper you refer to I have read also. If not for cross section it must have been for drag reduction. Or, I think, longer range.

I totally agree with your comment regarding having to have computers to keep the flying wing air born.

I feel that we have had operational "B-2" for far longer than the general public knows about. The range of the flying wing coupled with it's capacity to carry so many bombs was too great to shelf.
 

Aerowerx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
5,549
Location
Marion, Ohio
IIRC the Smithsonian is rebuilding a 229, with considerable volunteer assistance.

As far as it being a "stealth fighter", it is common for people to look at things in the past in the light of what we now have.
 

thjakits

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
58
Location
Panama, Rep. of Panama
In one of the Horten related books I have read, it is mentioned that - in hindsight - they realised they may have built something of a Stealth fighter after all. They used carbon powder (or graphite or something like it) as part of a filler. They also laminated plywood into wings - using the same glue-carbon stuff. They also were aware of rumours, that the English may have some kind of Radio-Searcher, but no one had any details. The fact that the machine might have been low-radar was speculated after the war.
It also should be mentioned, that the IX-V2 wasn't what they originally planned - the engines where deeper integrated - but a change in availability needed some rough adaption - which cost them in the aerodynamics department.

They also seem to have figured out that a leading-edge-blended-intake is NOT desirable.
All follow on designs had the engine intakes proud of the leading edge and circular - see V3 - the Smithsonian one...

One also needs to remember - these machines were stable aircraft - NO computer trickery back then!!
The glider IX-V1 had excellent flying properties and if they would have had the proper time this might have become a real game changer.

Unfortunately they never made it to a fly-off with the 262....

thjakits
 
Last edited:

Aerowerx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
5,549
Location
Marion, Ohio
.....They also were aware of rumours, that the English may have some kind of Radio-Searcher, but no one had any details. .....
Both Great Britain and Germany had Radar at the start of the war, although they called it something else, the term "radar" being crated by the US Navy.

It may have been classified so the Hortens didn't know the details, but it certainly existed.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
12,860
Location
Memphis, TN
The thing is Northrop was at a similar place. Both Northrop and Hortons needed money. The first N9M flew in ‘42, and the XB-35 flew in ‘46. If one side had come up with something combat ready, the other would have been there in short order. It’s not like today where radar is one of the most important tools. During WW2 radar was hit or miss with accuracy. I believe at least one Oboe raid had the wrong range tuned in. With the English having their radar hammered, eyes on the sky was still important. The technology was growing fast, but it was not 100% trust yet.
The US sent four P-80s right before the end of the war to Europe. They were only sent out if they thought there was a guarantee of finding a German Jet. If Germany only flew jets, dumping the prop planes, the skies would have had p-49s,p-80s, P-86s escorting B-29s and B-32s if not B-36s and B-52s.
 

thjakits

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
58
Location
Panama, Rep. of Panama
Uuuuh - are you talking about the 229 people?
NEVER call them Horton! (That's a totally different guy!)

They were the HORTEN brothers - 3 of them...
But 2 did most of the designing of those wings...

thjakits
 

cblink.007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
215
Location
Texas, USA
IIRC the Smithsonian is rebuilding a 229, with considerable volunteer assistance.

As far as it being a "stealth fighter", it is common for people to look at things in the past in the light of what we now have.
I wish I lived closer to the NASM, so I could lend assistance to its restoration! That being said, I was a guest of the docents a little over a year ago and had a chance to spend some quality time with the 229 after hours to study the centerbody and wings up close. Such a neat bird!!
 

choppergirl

Banned
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,682
Location
Choppergirl's Flying Circus ★★☠★★ AIR-WAR.ORG

I always wanted to build a static model 2142 PAC gunship to trailer to Cosplay conventions. I was thinking I could weld up a square tube steel frame with steel landing gear, with seat, build a plyboard cockpit, dummy glass cockpit, and then fill out all the rest in carved foam blocks and covered in fiberglass. We had a haybale size roll of boat fiberglass back then, but my dad has since gotten rid of it. interested or excited about it. :-/ 2142
 
Last edited:
Top