# Briggs vs Kohler and the state of the market for modifications

### Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
'Improved' crank? Why?

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
'Improved' crank? Why?
Too hard to get the customers money for a new crank unless you slap the 'improved', or similar, adjective on the thing. Image sells better than facts.
// cynic mode off

#### WonderousMountain

##### Well-Known Member
Kohler's Command line runs a 2.64 stroke, while B & S made
The jump to 810cc with a 2.89 stroke at nearly identical bore.
Compared to the ductile iron one, the original has 88% the cc.
What I'd like to do, is go a little further than that, opening it up
900cc, to get the power without Revs, redrives and ornate fixes.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
How much does that cost? Has anyone done long term testing, yet?

I can buy an EFI 810 vanguard with forged rods and crank for $1300. The carb version is$1100. Those are solid, tested core engines that are not too heavy.

In other news, I had a look at the sump capacity of an upright 810. About a quart and not deep, so would be overly sensitive to inclination. I will need an external sump of some sort.

#### WonderousMountain

##### Well-Known Member
How much does that cost?

Your sump, and all the little extra bits to install it.
How do you figure the installation expenditures?

Last edited:

#### tr7v8

##### Member
HBA Supporter
This is interesting, looks like a 40BHP engine from Subaru in the mix!

#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
I can buy an EFI 810 vanguard with forged rods and crank for $1300. The carb version is$1100. Those are solid, tested core engines that are not too heavy.
Funny, I was just checking prices this morning. The street prices for the Vanguard 810s (EFI and carb versions) have dropped $200-$300 from where they were 6 months ago.
With carb $999 , (plus tax, S&H) 49R977-0012-B1 Briggs & Stratton Gas Engines, Vertical Vertical 1" Diameter Shafts 49R977-0012 - 26hp Vertical 1-1/8"x4-5/16" Shaft, 810 Vanguard, Solenoid Shift Electric Start, 16 Amp, Fuel Pump, Briggs & Stratton Engine With EFI:$1169. ( Plus tax, S&H) http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/49E877-0007.html

other news, I had a look at the sump capacity of an upright 810. About a quart and not deep, so would be overly sensitive to inclination. I will need an external sump of some sort.
Easiest way might be some sort adjacent buddy-sump near the (new) base of the engine? No need for additional pumps, just gravity flow to the engine. Flappers or check valves would help keep oil in the engine during short excursions from level flight.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Funny, I was just checking prices this morning. The street prices for the Vanguard 810s (EFI and carb versions) have dropped $200-$300 from where they were 6 months ago.
With carb $999 , (plus tax, S&H) 49R977-0012-B1 Briggs & Stratton Gas Engines, Vertical Vertical 1" Diameter Shafts 49R977-0012 - 26hp Vertical 1-1/8"x4-5/16" Shaft, 810 Vanguard, Solenoid Shift Electric Start, 16 Amp, Fuel Pump, Briggs & Stratton Engine With EFI:$1169. ( Plus tax, S&H) http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/49E877-0007.html

Easiest way might be some sort adjacent buddy-sump near the (new) base of the engine? No need for additional pumps, just gravity flow to the engine. Flappers or check valves would help keep oil in the engine during short excursions from level flight.
Yes, I'm seriously considering a external sump underneath, with ball valves to the main sump and a flop tube.

#### karmarepair

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
This is interesting, looks like a 40BHP engine from Subaru in the mix!
Subaru small engines are no longer produced.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Subaru small engines are no longer produced.
They were nice engines, but heavy.

HBA Supporter

#### proppastie

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
A direct drive 810 would be close in weight to a 277.
if you did not have the gear box or starter on the 277 would be fair amount lighter......part 103 is hard.