# Are experimental EFIS really overpriced? (break-off from another thread)

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##### Well-Known Member
What part of the country are you located in sir?
I am currently just NW of Houston, in Spring. However, I will be moving up to southern Maryland to rejoin the military flight test community at NAS Patuxent River. K2W6 will be the location of my project.

I am 100% on board with some kind of fly-in event!

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I was not offended at all. Too many folks wear their feelings on their shoulders these days.
The fact that you may think that I am a professional offendee, greatly offends me.

BJC

#### User27

##### Well-Known Member
The value of many things built for experimental aircraft is often difficult to determine. Avionics in particular require significant investment in design, development, testing and manufacturing before something is ready for the market place. Manufacturers are then inclined to try to recoup their outlay, with a limited market prices will always be higher than we might like. But few build avionics for experimental aircraft for their own amusement. Underdeveloped equipment is just frustrating to use, badly designed or unreliable equipment can be just dangerous - bad data can be worse than no data. I would rather build airplanes rather than avionics.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The value of many things built for experimental aircraft is often difficult to determine.
My AFS EFIS is worth what I paid for it. That is independent of the cost to design, produce, sell and support it.

BJC

#### Yellowhammer

##### Well-Known Member
I actually had a man at a fly-in once look at my panel and ask me what I use for terrain avoidance. "I look out the windshield" was my reply. I'm currently using some inexpensive MGL singles and have a LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in the panel. I think if I were to upgrade it would be to Dynon. Sat through a presentation by their reps and was quite impressed at their approach and the rigorous testing that they do.

How much is a Lift Reserve Indicator cost? I really like those things!

#### Yellowhammer

##### Well-Known Member
I am currently just NW of Houston, in Spring. However, I will be moving up to southern Maryland to rejoin the military flight test community at NAS Patuxent River. K2W6 will be the location of my project.

I am 100% on board with some kind of fly-in event!

I live in Louisiana unfortunately. Originally from the State of Alabama. My brother lives in Huston.
I must say I am green with envy regarding your next move. To work at NAS Patuxent River where the real testing happens.

Being a Marine, I have that soft spot in my heart for Naval Aircraft inventory.
As for a fly in, we should start a thread and come up with a central location with proper facilities to support such an event. I think it would be neat to meet everyone.
Tons of education to be shared.

##### Well-Known Member
I live in Louisiana unfortunately. Originally from the State of Alabama. My brother lives in Huston.
I must say I am green with envy regarding your next move. To work at NAS Patuxent River where the real testing happens.

Being a Marine, I have that soft spot in my heart for Naval Aircraft inventory.
As for a fly in, we should start a thread and come up with a central location with proper facilities to support such an event. I think it would be neat to meet everyone.
Tons of education to be shared.
From one Marine to another... Semper Fi!

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
A quick Google search will show you a number of different versions of the same basic LRI concept designed around a Dwyer Minihelic 2-5002 differential pressure gauge, a simple analog industrial gauge that runs about $50 give or take. Then you need to make a probe, connect it up with tubing, calibrate it, and mark the face, so if you spend more that$100 total you're doing something wrong. Here's one article, there are more: My POV of a DIY AOA-LRI Indicator (FWIW, YMMV, LOL) | EAA

How much is a Lift Reserve Indicator cost? I really like those things!

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
How much is a Lift Reserve Indicator cost? I really like those things!

I bought mine (forget what it costs now) but the man I got it from don't sell them any longer. Easy enough to make one from pieces. The hardest part would be the probe and that shouldn't be too difficult for an airplane builder.

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
On the probe, it's all about differential pressure, so I don't see why you couldn't just use two vertically-spaced horizontal tubes with the ends cut off at 45 degree projecting from the wing leading edge or even clamped to a strut. Here's a nicer version of the probe drawing in the article above.

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#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Two holes in the wing leading edge near the tip work, too.

BJC

#### Yellowhammer

##### Well-Known Member
Gentleman,

I am a subscriber of a publication called Aero Expo. The url is AeroExpo@aeroexpo.online.
I get a monthly email from them and what they do is bring attention to aviation manufacturers, suppliers, and enthusiast with products that are new to the market.

They highlight everything form avionics to commercial interiors for aircraft.
They provided an overview of some of the newer players to the avionics and instrument market. I must say that I am extremely impressed. There are several companies that stand out to me based on innovation and cost.

Some of the manufacturers that stood out to me were Flybox, and TL Elektronics.

If you are not familiar with Aero Expo, I highly encourage you all to check it out and subscribe. They do not list the cost of the products but they do provide contact information as well as the companies website.

Hope you all will take the time to check it out as it has been very helpful to me.

Sincerely,

Yellowhammer

#### Yellowhammer

##### Well-Known Member
A quick Google search will show you a number of different versions of the same basic LRI concept designed around a Dwyer Minihelic 2-5002 differential pressure gauge, a simple analog industrial gauge that runs about $50 give or take. Then you need to make a probe, connect it up with tubing, calibrate it, and mark the face, so if you spend more that$100 total you're doing something wrong. Here's one article, there are more: My POV of a DIY AOA-LRI Indicator (FWIW, YMMV, LOL) | EAA
Hey Thank you Sir.
I will check that out ASAP! For that price, it would be foolish not to install one. Especially since I have not skinned the bottom of my wings on the plane I am building yet.

Again, Many Thanks!

#### pfarber

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
To DIY? No.

From a vendor that has to run a business? YES.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
If you're into diy & want to use the Navy way...
AOA_kit

##### Well-Known Member
If you're into diy & want to use the Navy way...
AOA_kit
That is awesome! I am inclined to think I can add a yaw sensing and have me a YAPS probe for flight testing. Great find...thanks!

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Glad you like it. It should work fine as a yaw sensor, as well. Toughest thing (after making the boards) will likely be protecting the external sensor boards from the environment. The hall effect sensor itself should be fine, but there will always be corrosion issues with the connectors, etc.

BTW, to add an AOA *pressure* probe to a plane with an existing pitot system already in place, one of the RV12 builders used an inclinometer to find the 30 degree point on his leading edge, drilled a hole, and inserted a probe there. (He used a sports ball inflation needle.) He had an EFIS already installed with the pitot, static, & AOA ports, so all he had to do was add an air line from his new AOA 'sensor' to the AOA port on the EFIS. (And calibrate the system, of course.)

#### opcod

##### Well-Known Member
Just look at the faa manual let say, and look at minimum requirement or even during war.. and the start of aviation. No need of electronic. if people feel save having a ipad or any igarbage.. well it's different, but putting something to play candy crush in a plane and lose reading because a bug or an update is just silly and it's against safety. Safety must pass first all time. VFR is not playing on a computer screen.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Safety must pass first all time. VFR is not playing on a computer screen.
What EFIS have you flown with?

I submit that any of the modern EFIS is more reliable than an FAA approved vacuum system, and has features such as synthetic vision, altitude above ground, towers, track information, nearest airport, ground speed, cross wind component, radio frequencies, AP, glide asvisor, total engine monitoring, alarming everything from altitude, engine temps, fuel quantity, etc. that make it much safer than not having it.

BJC