737 grounded???

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Himat

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You have a legitimate concern.

Another is the scope and effectiveness of the training. Do pilot’s today learn what they need to know about actually flying an airplane rather than operating systems? Remember the rule, “First, fly the airplane”? That (perceived, by me) training deficiency applies to Private pilots as well as Airline Transport pilot’s.


BJC
From a different perspective the question could be; do pilots today really learn what they need to know to operate the system? (The system here being the airplane.)
 

Voidhawk9

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That would be a resounding "Yes" when referencing the legacy US carriers.
Which is always going to be the best case scenario. But these aircraft are being used extensively in places where standards and so on are far less optimal.

It is easy to say that the pilots should have done thus and so after the fact sitting in our comfortable chairs. In the heat and pressure and circumstances of the moment, it isn't necessarily so easy. "The Limits of Expertise" is a good read in that regard.
 

davidb

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Is the gear you reference taller than the previous landing gear? That was the main point of contention between Boeing and the FAA.
I think it is inches taller but I’ll punt and plead ignorance on the issue of certification under the same type rating. I’ve flown other aircraft under the same type rating (757-200 vs. 767-300) and any iteration of 737 is mild compared to that.
 

davidb

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Which is always going to be the best case scenario. But these aircraft are being used extensively in places where standards and so on are far less optimal.

It is easy to say that the pilots should have done thus and so after the fact sitting in our comfortable chairs. In the heat and pressure and circumstances of the moment, it isn't necessarily so easy. "The Limits of Expertise" is a good read in that regard.
Your point is valid and we don’t need to buy the book to understand the issue. Build the perfect airplane. Train the perfect pilot. Achieve both and we’ll never see another tragedy. The problem is figuring out how to pay for that while travelers are searching for the cheapest ticket. It gets more complicated when the traveler can shop the globe.
 

BJC

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.. It is easy to say that the pilots should have done thus and so after the fact sitting in our comfortable chairs. In the heat and pressure and circumstances of the moment, it isn't necessarily so easy. "The Limits of Expertise" is a good read in that regard.
It is human nature to second guess, and pilot’s are particularly adept at it.

The real benefit of determining the root cause and causal factors of an event is it allows the responsible party(s) to make a value judgement about any potential corrective action. Notwithstanding the expectations of the public, not all will be implemented.


BJC
 

Voidhawk9

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Your point is valid and we don’t need to buy the book to understand the issue. Build the perfect airplane. Train the perfect pilot. Achieve both and we’ll never see another tragedy. The problem is figuring out how to pay for that while travelers are searching for the cheapest ticket. It gets more complicated when the traveler can shop the globe.
The perfect airplane and perfect pilot will, of course, never exist. So systems need to be designed with that in mind. A good start is not certifying undocumented systems that make inputs without alerting the pilots.
 

TXFlyGuy

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I think it is inches taller but I’ll punt and plead ignorance on the issue of certification under the same type rating. I’ve flown other aircraft under the same type rating (757-200 vs. 767-300) and any iteration of 737 is mild compared to that.
Yes, for sure. I'm typed on the 757/767/777, and have flown all of them except the 767-300. The 767-400 is so close to the 777 they should have made it a common type. The cockpits are identical, same displays and instrumentation.

The 757-200 is night and day different from the 767-400. Two totally different animals, that do not have any similar flight characteristics, yet with a common type. Go figure?
 

Heliano

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I wonder why changing the landing gear design would require a different type rating. A similar situation happened with the Embraer E-Jets: the new E-jet series (E190-E2, E-195-E2, E175-E2) have larger, geared fan, P&W 1900 engines which have a substantially larger frontal area. Embraer redesigned the entire landing gear system, adopting a trailing-link type for the main gear, totally different from the previous E-jet gears. The supplier is also different: the earlier gears were supplied by Liebherr in Germany, the new ones are not. And mind you: the type rating is still the same, with just differences training, mainly due to the avionics which changed from the old Honeywell Epic 1 to the new large-display Honeywell Epic TM2 system and new FMS. The new version also has the motorbike-style yoke, though (which I do like)
 
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