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2020-Sept 20thReno Racers:

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rhbelter

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2020-Sept 20th


Ahoy, HomeBuiltAirplanes:



Dark-of-the-night thoughts ::::



Reno Racers: Very high level development, but innovation ????



It comes to my mind that the only significant innovative ‘thingies’ which I have seen there (years ago) are vapor phase cooling, and, the clean-sheet Pond Racer.



Back then at Reno, I was talking with an Aerothermodynamicist, (my thesis field) whose name I no longer recall, but his was on more than half of the landing gear doors present. My question was about vapor phase cooling endurance, and he noted that at low power, it was pretty good, with the P51 – so rigged -- having flown from Portland to Van Nuys.



The Pond Racer on the flight line sounded like an immense window fan. He remarked that they were going to need to automate a lot more things, because the pilot workload with cooling doors and spray nozzles and all else was overwhelming. Unfortunately, no longer needed.



Sports Racers:



The Reno Go-Fast Sports Racer Rules: … ‘Aircraft are to be powered by an internal combustion engine or engines totaling no more than 1000 cu in.’

How’s about a pair of 495 cu/in seriously hot engines installed in an appropriate --- say a tandem engine / tilt-wing / extension shaft airplane.

AND, the tilt-wing permits a reasonable length MLG for a VERY ‘sporty’ and usable sports-plane version, too.

BTW: The tilt-wing on the F8 Crusader worked fine. 1000 mph was a piece-of-cake, great fun, and further, it was the first airplane which I flew which was NOT ‘seriously-under powered’.

Of course, the piston engine extension shaft is no casual thing. A comprehensive dynamic analysis is in order, along with appropriately measured results. The development of such may well be made easier by using a clutch to de-couple the shaft during start, and up to some certain rpm.

BTW, a seriously dangerous soul is one with a shop full of high tech tools who can craft a PSRU, but is ‘unlettered’ in his ability to technically analyze the dynamics of his ‘creation’, nor is capable of measuring the result.

Tandem engines were figured out by Bugatti 80+ years ago and also, with the Folk Wulf ?? Dornier 335 Pfeil.

Too bad that the beautiful replica airplane did not have a proper dynamic shaft analysis / measurement.

What I read about the loss was ‘clutch failure’. I’ll bet that a lot of unplanned for torsional dynamics were very involved with that clutch failure.

The wetted surface of such an airplane could be about the same as a single engine critter, and with twice the HP, I suggest that a well-done airplane like that would absolutely rule the Sport Racers, and scare the crap out of the unlimited guys.

WHY is such an airplane not seen??? I cannot be the only guy to have had such ideas.

I believe that there is plenty of $$$ available in the hands of the (sponsored) Reno Racers to do such. ??????

Enjoy /s/ Bob
 

Mcmark

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Bob,
Having raced there once, with only family and friends as sponsors, it’s a sport for the wealthy. I couldn’t have done it without my families help.
If there was money to be made with sponsors, ala NASCAR, NHRA etc, you would be seeing the innovation.
The other side of it is that the younger generation has little interest in motor sports, so the new eyes with which to innovate are looking for $$ in return. One race a year doesn’t not turn a profit for anyone.
My winnings check was supposed to be ~$400 for Silver Biplane 7th place. That doesn’t hardly cover fuel.
The only class growing is Sport and the disparity is huge from Gold to Bronze.
Mark
 

mcrae0104

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It comes to my mind that the only significant innovative ‘thingies’ which I have seen there (years ago) are vapor phase cooling, and, the clean-sheet Pond Racer.
You are welcome to build something you consider to be innovative and enter it in the 2021 NCAR.
 

wsimpso1

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New airframes with big engineering? That is simply not viable. Most classes are running a volume produced airframe with pumped engines and cleaned up aerodynamically, and being done mostly for the fun of it. To do it bigger would take way more spectators and some serious money from sponsors for both the races and the teams. Not in the cards...
 

TFF

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Racing is always about money overcoming rules. Innovation use to overcome the rules for a few, but money usually buys innovation. now most rules are to cap money because no one even the wealthy would compete if it was open. Almost too much knowledge and not enough racing.
 

rv6ejguy

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The Sport Class aircraft to date have not tapped the potential of the rules so far which would see a turboed Mountain Motor in a small airframe. Easy 500mph potential. 2 aircraft along these lines are being designed at this time. SDS is involved in both to supply the EFI.

On the Unlimited front, we are also involved as a sponsor/ supplier for a new design under development now by a multiple time class winner which should shake things up. Can't say much more than that at this time.

The Bugatti and Do335 were hardly proven concepts, the former never even flew. Both immensely complicated and would be expensive to carry that concept to a Reno racer which is used once a year. There are much easier and cheaper ways to go fast.

Big sponsors are hard to come by these days at Reno with the reduced Unlimited field and the fast guys gone.
 
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rhbelter

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Ahoy, Ross, and ALL of you other homebuilders,

Thanks for the Mountain Motors ‘reveal’.

My suggestion of a push-pull was predicated on (my) notion of available engine sizes, using two, in order to approach the needed displacement.

The Mountain Motors approaching 1000 cu/in is a FAR better notion than mine, and FAR simpler too.

I expect that such a ‘monster-motor’, with your SDS will absolutely rule the Sport Racer field.

Enjoy /s/ Bob
 

rv6ejguy

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Neither of the 2 new designs will go with Mountain motors due to cost considerations as they don't need that much power in a new airframe to win. That was just my suggestion on how to go 500 mph in Sport Class if you had a big budget. We have to wait and see if Reno will even run in 2021...
 

Victor Bravo

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Red Bull needs to come in and have a pylon speed racing division, and put as much money/PR/coverage into it as they do with their aerobatic time trial "racing". That is the only way "big time" air racing will survive and not become an historical footnote like scrimshaw. I'm not proud or happy to say that at all. But big dollar 500 MPH air racing simply requires large national sponsors, just like big dollar car racing.

The future of air racing may well be on the smaller end of the scale, some kind of "Kart racing with wings". Powered by the 40HP class V-twins or maybe even the Apex engines if you want to get fancy. An Apex powered racer with retractable gear could make 300 MPH laps, but the cost would quickly get up over $100K.

IMHO the best hope for racing is a low power formula class with cost and technology limited. We had an HBA thread on that a while back. There are already several air racing classes, with and without engines, that nobody can afford.
 

TFF

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F1 needs to be split into traditional Cassutt like Hershey style wings and tapered high tech. I bet more square wing planes would show if they knew there was a chance.
 

rv6ejguy

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Red Bull needs to come in and have a pylon speed racing division, and put as much money/PR/coverage into it as they do with their aerobatic time trial "racing". That is the only way "big time" air racing will survive and not become an historical footnote like scrimshaw. I'm not proud or happy to say that at all. But big dollar 500 MPH air racing simply requires large national sponsors, just like big dollar car racing.

The future of air racing may well be on the smaller end of the scale, some kind of "Kart racing with wings". Powered by the 40HP class V-twins or maybe even the Apex engines if you want to get fancy. An Apex powered racer with retractable gear could make 300 MPH laps, but the cost would quickly get up over $100K.

IMHO the best hope for racing is a low power formula class with cost and technology limited. We had an HBA thread on that a while back. There are already several air racing classes, with and without engines, that nobody can afford.
Unlimiteds and to a some extent, as of late, Sport Class are the big draws at Reno. People watch for the sheer speed and raw power/ sound. Unlimited is losing audience though as the 3 fast guys won't be running any more it seems so that show is gone. Need new blood there but it's expensive as you point out.

40hp race planes, while cheap and possibly exciting for entrants, won't draw any crowd. Air racing for fans is about speed first and foremost. 40 hp planes at Reno would be as exciting for Unlimited fans as watching paint dry...

There has to be a mix of affordability, speed and fan support. IMO Sport Class has the best mix now as evidenced by the entry list and fan base but even it, with 400+mph laps now, doesn't hold a candle to the glory days in Unlimited. Nothing sounds like a Merlin running 150 inches fighting it out with Rare Bear. Skip to the :35 mark on the vid and turn it up.

 
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Victor Bravo

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Well, maybe the Reno event and the Reno audience demographic is not the only answer to choose from. This has been proven out rather clearly by the Red Bull events. There are other successful automobile races than just NASCAR.
 
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