What's a good gyro for an HKS 700E (60HP) engine?

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13brv3

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Update- See post 15 to find out why I decided this was a bad idea, and admitted that the OP was a gullible fool :)


Greetings,

I've got an HKS engine on a test stand, and think I want another gyrocopter. I had a Dominator long ago, but would likely prefer something closer to the Sport Copter Vortex. I'm assuming the 582 version of that would probably work well for an HKS, but finding one at a reasonable price would be a challenge.

What plans are out there for the more modern variety of gyros? It's a real shame that SC doesn't sell plans and parts instead of the full kits. What else should I look at?

Thanks,
Rusty
 
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girodreamer

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Hi,
the hks is supposed to be 60HP ... but ninn reality it is less ... the 582 is what you need really
as for plans .. II I don't know I design my gyros .. for a monoseater it is super easy no ?
 

13brv3

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I asked on the Rotary Wing Forum already, and got a few replies, but nothing I hadn't really expected. I have very little gyro experience, so I don't want to get too creative with the design, though it does look pretty straightforward.

I'm thinking I'll try to find a single place Dominator project somewhere near east TN . I know the HKS is a little underpowered for that, but I'm done with 2-strokes. The frame would also support a 912 if I get tired of the HKS. I'd love to have a Sport Copter Vortex with the semi-enclosure, but they're typically overpriced.

Cheers,
Rusty
 

Victor Bravo

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I believe the HKS will allow a significantly lower amount of fuel to be carried, which gives you back a little bit of whatever you might have lost compared to the 582.
 

13brv3

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Mine also has the 3.47 gears, so as long as I can make room for an optimal prop, the thrust will likely make up for it.
 

girodreamer

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I asked on the Rotary Wing Forum already, and got a few replies, but nothing I hadn't really expected. I have very little gyro experience, so I don't want to get too creative with the design, though it does look pretty straightforward.

I'm thinking I'll try to find a single place Dominator project somewhere near east TN . I know the HKS is a little underpowered for that, but I'm done with 2-strokes. The frame would also support a 912 if I get tired of the HKS. I'd love to have a Sport Copter Vortex with the semi-enclosure, but they're typically overpriced.

Cheers,
Rusty
Rusty,

the rotary wing forum ceased to be a place where famous engineers and genious home builders would come to speak about their last inventions and tests etc .. now it is just a place where people come to speak about they stock gyros .. the end ..

as a matter of fact all is a matter of machine weight , fuel weight, and pilot weight

I am flying my home made 183 kilos gyro + 35 kg fuel + 88 kg of pilot = 306 kg and the 582 is ... okish ... nothing extra you see ?

ok I am an inexperienced pilot of 300 H but I honestly think that 60 hp 4 stroke is weak , unless you weight 70 kg and your gyro weights 160 kg and carries only one hour of fuel

this is just my opinion

the dom is a good choice

salut
 
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13brv3

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Thanks for the comments. Based on the weight of my previous Dom, I'd come out about 10 kg lighter. A number of Doms flew with 503 engines, though the "ultrawhite" was typically lighter. I'd certainly like to try the HKS, since I have it, and have always wanted to use one. I don't need it to be an airshow performer, but hopefully the performance will be adequate. If not, there's always the 912, which I believe a Dom can handle as well. Maybe I should plan to keep that as a fall back plan.

Thanks,
Rusty
 

girodreamer

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you are welcome, as a matter of fact if you have the engine it would be stupid not to use it of course
please let us know about your built if possible .
 

13brv3

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The engine is mounted on a test stand, so I can run it and work on a fuel injection system for it. Of course it dawns on me that a Dom would make an even better test stand, and you can even fly it when you're ready to mount the blades :)
 

13brv3

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OK, so here's the post where I admit that I've been duped by marketing, and my own stubbornness. I decided to try to find comparisons between the HKS power, and the 503 and 582. Over the years I've always heard "weight of a 582 and power of a 503" when people spoke of testing the HKS.

I found a few threads with some various measurements from static thrust tests, or flight figures, which can never really be compared. The best of which is VB's thread from this very forum.


The most interesting and irrefutable information I found comes from basic calculations. It seems that a 680 CC engine at 6200 RPM, without supercharging would be expected to make about 45 HP. That figure was quoted in a number of posts, and can be found by going to any of the generic HP calculators online. This actually does explain a lot, though it's sort of embarrassing to just figure this out now...

The HKS may still be a good choice for some fixed wing aircraft, but I officially agree that it's not going to be a good choice for a gyro. The good news is that I got a decent deal on the engine when I bought it, and it was fun to play with, but it looks like time for a Barnstormers ad. I'll move to the 912, or look into the many new and unproven conversions that are popping up everywhere.

Thanks for steering me toward reality.
Rusty
 

Victor Bravo

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I believe the HKS has very significant advantages in some areas, and disadvantages in others. The biggest issue facing Rusty is that the gyros have a lot more drag, and require more thrust than the equivalent fixed wing ultralight or LSA of the same weight and payload. So perhaps a 582 or 912 is going to give you the push you need. I do like the HKS from what my small experience was, but I also have to admit that it probably is not the equivalent of a 582...
 
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girodreamer

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I am happy not to have had to work on engines issues when I re-built my monoseater and when I built my tandem ..
I had so manythings to design/machine/mount that using a rotaxes engines left me enough time to built the rest of the gyros

I am happy I have completed those built ...
 

girodreamer

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I believe the HKS has very significant advantages in some areas, and disadvantages in others. The biggest issue facing Rusty is that the gyros have a lot more drag, and require more thrust than the equivalent fixed wing ultralight or LSA of the same weight and payload. So perhaps a 582 or 912 is going to give you the push you need. I do like the HKS form what my small experience was, but I also have to admit that it probably is not the equivalent of a 582...
in gyro we need power this is true, for a monoseater 65 cv are really a minimum to get some descent margins, on a tandem 100 hp seems to me a real minimum .

but on the other hand it is important not to put a too torquy engine in the hand of beginners ...eespicially when it comes to flying eurotubs without tall tails.

as a matter of fact in zero G full throttle with a 140 hp rotax, a pilot has already flipped over like a sunday pan cake and died of course ( an old chap having just bought his first gyro) ... and the risk on bunt over is also back on the sceen

wuth the dom .. no issue it is torque resistant (tanks to the tall tail)
 

13brv3

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I actually enjoy custom installations, and I've done more of those recently than "normal" installations. I'm finishing a 912 installation on a Sonex Onex now, and had to TIG weld the mount myself. I'm pretty happy with how it came out, assuming the engine doesn't fall off :)

Rusty
 

girodreamer

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I love the sonex planes, I am not a guy of FW, and I am too old and certainly to lazy to learn to fly a FW but I love those kind of Aluminium construction, I did my tall tail using the old method, what a pleasure ... but it let me realise how long it must be to make an entire plane in aluminum .. pure art

I can't wait to see a pic if you get a chance

as for your mount welding well done mate , I don't know welding at all .. I make everything in bolted aluminium ..

even the engine mounts ... we all make things using the techniques we master ..


Capture d’écran 2021-05-14 à 21.08.03.png



my engine is not 100 % "normal" I installed a 912 ul and a pagotto turbo charger kit = 75 kg , 122HP

also I installed a 100% mechanical fuel pump able to feed the turbocharged engine

it is an intalian pump made by flygaz :

tempImageLe8LVL.jpg


also I installed a 100% mechanical fuel pump able to feed the turbocharged engine

it is an intalian pump made by flygaz :

tempImageLe8LVL.jpg

well it is not a custom installation, the kit is certified for LSA in germany, there are a lot, brako gyros are all using this engine

I would have loved to have a yamaha 3 cylinder engine but i prefered focussing on designing my own gyro from a to z without any plan... it took me ages ... now I want to be a pilot ... I only have 300 flight hours because after my first built I immediately started the tandem ... I ve had enough with building to be honest ..

Capture d’écran 2021-05-14 à 20.38.05.png

it is just great to find people still building , I am pleased that you start building a gyro ... I hate low profile heavy eurotubs
home builts must still exist !
 
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