Sonerai IIL plans

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fusionfab

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May 16, 2012
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87
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southern ontario canada
Hey everyone I am still fighting to make up my mind about which ultralight I'd like to build. What its come down to is the Raven (kitfox clone) and a Sonerai IIL. These two because my main goal is to find a plans built two place ultralight either using a VW or a Rotax 582 so I have come to these ones. However I had purchased the Raven plans from plansforu.com at a very cheap price and they seem to be very difficult to follow/understand. I think its possible but know that I'll suffer more headaches than expected. So my question is if anyone has seen a set of the Sonerai plans and what your experience was with them? Also did they come with full scale drawings? I guess I could spend the $125 and see them but just watching the penny's.
Thanks in advance
Matt
 

bmcj

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Apr 10, 2007
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13,891
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Fresno, California
Are you already a pilot, or will you be learning to fly in the plane you build? A couple of things to keep in mind: the Kitfox may be a better plane to learn it... a little more docile and roomy and the side by side seating is preferred by many (instructors and students).

Now the big hitch...
Assuming the rules in Canada are similar to the U.S., your plane will require a flight test period (maybe 40 hours). That time must be flown off by an experienced pilot before you can consider using it to learn in. Again, I speak from a U.S. perspective and only assume that yours is the same.

Bruce :)
 

fusionfab

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May 16, 2012
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southern ontario canada
Thanks guys I joined sonerai.net and have been searching through it but cannot come up with answers also for some reason it won't let me start a thread after being registered.

im going through lessons right now for my ultralight permit and learning in a challenger II. I originally was Intetested in the hummelbird and sonerai 1 but would prefer a plans built two seater which brings me to the raven kitfox clone and sonerai 2. I think the raven would work best for me with its extra versatility with the use of floats and extra luggage storage and side by side seating. I purchasd the $14 plans for it but are somewhat difficult to read ie. tiny diagrams and measurements also blotchy etc. so was wondering what the sonerai plans are like and also if they come with scaled drawings diagrams and templates?
thanks
 

4trade

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Nov 1, 2010
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527
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Lahti/Finland
Sonerai plans is like most of homebuild plans at that time, complete plans for building wing, fuselage and tail with all bracket and fitting....but builder will need basic understanding for canopy, glass fiber mounting and work like that. Some builder might have little trouble for reading Sonerai plans, it is small and compact size, lot or stuff in a small place, but there is everything that need to be for aircraft building.
 

dcstrng

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Oct 17, 2010
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913
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VA or NoDak
I purchasd the $14 plans for it but are somewhat difficult to read ie. tiny diagrams and measurements also blotchy etc. so was wondering what the sonerai plans are like and also if they come with scaled drawings diagrams and templates?
thanks
The Raven/Mohawk plans I have were already in a pdf, and I regularly scan plans I get into pdf form, so I can easily enlarge sections (geriatric eyes) on my computer. The Sonerai plans are similar in many regards to others of the era – a lot like Tailwind, Pietenpol, MiniCoupe, etc. Sonerai is better than the Raven – at least in being able to read the drawings, and is an all-around slightly less complex bird – but neither require a rocket scientist… However, there is enough Raven (Avid Flyer Kitfox) and Sonerai information on the net that getting construction advice is not a challenge with either…

This is an older post, but similar questions get asked from time to time. More contemporary plans (Zodiac CH601, CH701, Sonex and the like) generally have more detail, and cost more – whereas the more time-honored and traditional plans assumed a moderate amount of shop-knowledge and largely concentrated on scantlings, dimensions and the trickier components, leaving the rest to the builder. Some had scale rib drawings, templates, some not, but usually I find it best to take the hour or so it takes to just draw it up myself (given that paper in inherently dimensionally unstable – and it helps to get to know these critical areas anyway). A lot of folks these days are skilled in CAD, but generally I use a digital caliper and a lead pencil... wurks fer me...
 

N804RV

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Jun 9, 2013
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362
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Mount Vernon, WA
I bought Sonerai II plans some years ago. I wanted the midwing tail wheel, was sent the plans for a tri-gear, low wing. I found the plans I had looked like copies of copies and the detail on the fuselage drawings were so poor, I couldn't make out some of the dimensions.

I tried calling Great Planes, and was less than happy with the conversation I had with whoever it was I talked to on the phone that day. Again, this was a few years ago, and perhaps it was a fluke, or perhaps things have changed, I don't know. I lost interest and never called back.

What I do know is I never felt confident enough in my abilities to build from those plans.
 

dcstrng

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I tried calling Great Planes, and was less than happy with the conversation I had with whoever it was I talked to on the phone that day. Again, this was a few years ago, and perhaps it was a fluke, or perhaps things have changed, I don't know. I lost interest and never called back.
Well every operation has a “bad hair” day, so who knows…

Almost any of the plans that were drawn up before the present-day match-drill kit/clone era will seem primitive by comparison (there are a few high-end exceptions – Falco, GP4, etc…), unless they were redrawn – and then you won’t be able to buy them for $100+/-. I’ve called Great Plains a few times and although they’ve made very little money off me so far (most of my supplies and components have some from scrounging and third parties), Steve has graciously resolved my questions – he may be gagging at having to answer another drove of newbie Sonerai questions, but he does it so he’ll get my business…

I have a set of SII plans from the prehistoric Monnett era and a current set of GPAS SIIS plans and they are both as readable as you’d expect… however, they are worth at least a dozen hours of perusing and study before one starts cutting metal in earnest. The current Sonerai assembly manual that Fred and others contributed to is far and away better than anything previously available… Whether one wants to build a Sonerai is a different question, but between current plans, Sonerai.net and GPAS there is plenty of information/assistance for a 1st-time builder…

By contrast, the Sonex plans (the modern Monnett design) have enough precise, intricate and minute detail to stagger the imagination; very little left to chance, shop interpretation or builders’ option – but they cost nearly $800. In between (cost and detail-wise) are the various Zenith plans – excellent detail, usually roughly in the $400-600 range… One thing I’ve noticed bout the older, traditional suppliers – they’ve seen a gazillion dreamers come and go and they don’t waste much time trying to drum up enthusiasm – answer technical questions, yes; pander to newbie’s… not so much, that is left to the more heavily marketed (and presumably far more profitable…) contemporary designs… So we make our choice(s) and pay the freight accordingly…
 
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Schmleff

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Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
24
Location
Waupaca, WI / USA
I bought Sonerai II plans some years ago. I wanted the midwing tail wheel, was sent the plans for a tri-gear, low wing. I found the plans I had looked like copies of copies and the detail on the fuselage drawings were so poor, I couldn't make out some of the dimensions.

I tried calling Great Planes, and was less than happy with the conversation I had with whoever it was I talked to on the phone that day. Again, this was a few years ago, and perhaps it was a fluke, or perhaps things have changed, I don't know. I lost interest and never called back.

What I do know is I never felt confident enough in my abilities to build from those plans.
You probably spoke with Steve. He is a great guy but can come off a bit dry ; )
 
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