premix oil

Discussion in '2-Stroke Aircaft Engines' started by wanttobuild, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Jul 31, 2017 #1

    wanttobuild

    wanttobuild

    wanttobuild

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    I am running amsoil interceptor 50/50 into 100LL (ROTAX 582) (Just overhauled).
    What are you guys running?
     
  2. Jul 31, 2017 #2

    Dana

    Dana

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    I always ran Pennzoil Air-Cooled (also known as Pennzoil Outdoor) in my 2-strokes, with car gas (100LL for the last fillup before putting it away for the winter).

    Dana
     
  3. Jul 31, 2017 #3

    proppastie

    proppastie

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    I have been told lead is bad for two-strokes, fouls the plug. Temperature issue? Course it can foul the plugs in my Lycoming too,
     
  4. Jul 31, 2017 #4

    choppergirl

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    I thought they stopped making leaded gasoline, and you could only get lead in your gasoline by adding additives.

    Lead is some pretty nasty stuff:
    http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/11/why-lead-used-to-be-added-to-gasoline/

    Gasoline itself is some pretty nasty stuff. It is absorbed right through your skin almost like it wasn't there. Don't try to wash it off, you soften up your skin even more porous then, let it evaporate off (smells bad). I found out how nasty it was when brazing the pinholes on my motorcycle gastank... gasoline would get through some of those smallest holes where water would say um no way, not even under pressure. Finally I resorted to $$$ silver solder.

    Considering how mechanics degreased parts in the past in gasoline and painters used gasoline to clean paint brushes with enamel paint when they didn't have paint thinner around... and you have a recipe for disaster getting all over people's hands. Considering how much gasoline I've gotten on my hands just fixing !@#$% leaking fuel lines... I'm glad the lead is gone. I used some gas in some enamel paint today to stretch it out...

    ~

    Aside: I wish all engines had a compression release valves like on diesel engines. Those are the bomb. Most of our batteries are pretty old (pushing 5-7 years) and marginally able to turn over an engine on a good day... and not everything we have can be push started.

    2 strokes hard at work culling the population...
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  5. Jul 31, 2017 #5

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

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    It can foul a less than perfectly running 2 stroke's plug quite quickly, that is true, emphasis on the less than perfect running.

    Un-leaded fuel certainly was the best thing ever for 2 strokes, run them rich and hard while staying cool, they love it.
     
  6. Jul 31, 2017 #6

    Dana

    Dana

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    Avgas still has lead.

    Dana
     
  7. Jul 31, 2017 #7

    N8053H

    N8053H

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    You can use a product known as TCP that helps keep the lead from causing problems. They also make another product that is not as nasty as this product put I forgot what that is. I used the TCP product for this reason of lead and fouling spark plugs and ring glands.

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ep/fueladditives/alcortcp.php

    Tony
     
  8. Jul 31, 2017 #8

    N8053H

    N8053H

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    Very bad idea to use gas to clean anything. I had 10 gallons explode in my face. You can not tell this happened to me today. I am ever so lucky to not be burned from my head to my waist. I was not wearing a shirt and the doctor said if I would have been wearing a shirt I would have lost all my skin when they took the shirt off. Now I use diesel fuel to clean parts or did when I worked.

    Tony
     
  9. Aug 1, 2017 #9

    wanttobuild

    wanttobuild

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    Dana, Penzoil air cooled came with some of the extra parts when i bought the Trike, but couldn't find it anywhere.
    N8053H, thanks for the tip on the TCP. The link shows approval for Lyc,Con, and Franklin. Do you run it in a Rotax?
     
  10. Aug 1, 2017 #10

    Dana

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    Pennzoil Outdoor can be found at Advance Auto Parts, or from oil-store.com.

    "Decalin" is the TCP alternative.

    Dana
     
  11. Aug 1, 2017 #11

    N8053H

    N8053H

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    No I use the TCP in a VW engine that uses 100LL.
     
  12. Aug 2, 2017 #12

    wanttobuild

    wanttobuild

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    I choose the Amsoil oil because of its supposed ability to prevent carbon buildup. I will keep this group posted on my findings.
    I run 100LL because i dont know anything about pump gas down at the station.
    I didn't think i would like the 582, but so far haven't had a reason not to.
     
  13. Aug 2, 2017 #13

    proppastie

    proppastie

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    Here is a follow up, question. They say marine 2 stroke oil has a lower combustion temperature because the outboards are water cooled and it burns up and does not pollute. My model engine has a cylinder head temperature of 190- 225 F when running. Do you guys know the CH temp of the 582 or other 2 strokes ? Any ideas on if marine 2 stroke oil is suitable?
     
  14. Aug 2, 2017 #14

    Dana

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    Don't use marine oil, it's made for outboard motors that run much cooler than a rotax in a plane.

    Dana
     
  15. Mar 3, 2018 #15

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    Rotax Rick who has built over 950 Rotaxs and who Builds the 92-94hp 670's with a 450hr TBO last I knew, use's Amsoil Interceptor at 40:1 Premix in just 91 Octane.

    I asked him once about 100LL and he had just done an inspection on a pair of 582ULs that had ran nothing but 100LL for 400hrs with NO PROBLEMS, the only thing he saw was the Piston Tops were more of a yellowish color vs the normal Brownish/Tan.

    Hirth Engines, I believe, says 100LL is ok, they have 1000hr TBO's and they also recommend their Full Synthetic Blue Max Oil either at either 80:1 or 100:1. There is multiple People running Amsoil Saber Full Synthetic at both 80:1 or 100:1 also, with many 100's of Hours on them. With Full Synthetic's you have much longer times before a De-Carbon is needed. Joe Graneck(Rotax Joe), was quoting 700+hours on his built 582ULs using Amsoil Saber at 100:1 and using Ceramic Coated Piston Tops.

    ALL 2 Strokes OILS have different FLASH POINTS, that's when they turn to ASH, what does yours FLASH at?

    Off a Bike site:
    (fahrenheit):
    1. Motul 800 2T Factory Line "Offroad" is 485.6 degrees!!!! <--- :jawdrop: contain a LOT of veggie and coconut derivatives.
    2. Bel-Ray H1-R has a flashpoint of 435.2 degrees It also burns really clean on one aircraft motor piston test i saw.
    3. Motul 800 2T Factory Line "Road Racing" is 284 degrees.
    4. Amsoil Saber Outboard is 248 degrees.
    5. Maxima K2 has a flashpoint of 240 degrees.
    6. Amsoil Saber Professional is 237 degrees.
    7. Redline Racing Synthetic is 217.
    8. Pennzoil Multi-purpose 2 cycle oil is 212 degrees.
    9. Bel-Ray MC-1 is 208.4 degrees.
    10. Golden Spectro 2T is 205 degrees.
    11. Amsoil Dominator is 198 degrees.
    12. Spectro "Golden" SX is 196 degrees.
    13. Spectro "Platinum" SX is 191 degrees.
    14. Amsoil Interceptor is 187 degrees.
    15. Golden Spectro Injector is 178 degrees.
    16. Valvoline 2 Stroke motorcycle oil is 172 degrees.
    17. Torco GP-7 is only 74 degrees and that **** smells like soap!

    Now out of these, which do you think will Foul Plugs and have a lot of carbon, and which ones will Lubricate the best?

    One thing I might add, right from one of the Factory Head Rotax Engine guys I met at Oshkosh years ago, in our conversation about CR's used and Octane Gas, he said, Detonation was the #1 Problem with ALL Rotax Engine Failures. IF, you use Fresh 91 Octane you should be fine, but People are lazy and cheap and Gas lose's 2 Points in Octane in as little as 3 weeks per Rotax, some People say 2 weeks.

    MY New 79 Chevy was built for 87 with 9.5cr and it knocked bad when passing, so any Rotax UL that is running 9.6cr (377 and 447) is on the Edge of Detonation with 87, any Rotax using 10.8cr (503) is on the edge with 90 Octane, any Rotax running 11.5cr(All Water cooled) is on the edge running 91 Octane, as is the ones running 11.8cr (277) running 91 Octane. Some 532UL's used 11.5cr some 12.5cr and probably needs 92-93 Octane. With 100LL you can run 14.5cr, but I still wouldn't go over 12.5cr with it for Plane use.

    If you Noticed, most of the other 2 Stroke Engine Companys, all went to a 9.5cr in Almost 99% of there Engines to run this crap pump Gas we have today!

    A Good Genral Rule is, for each 1.0cr Increase you gain 2hp on a 2 Stroke at the same rpms.

    Like Old Skidoo/Rotax Single Cylinder Sled motors. You had the Standard Engines rated at 5500rpms, the TNT's at 6500rpms, and the Blizzards at 7500+rpms. The Highest HP Production Single were the 1971 Blizzards, 246cc (29hp), 292cc (31hp), and the 340cc (36hp). My Stanard 335/340 (78mm x 70mm = 334.6cc) with 30mm Carb was 18hp with 8.0cr, and 20hp with 9.0cr, both with just a Muffler. My 340 TNT (78mm x 70mm = 334.6cc) with 38mm Carb with 10.5cr and a better Ported Cylinder and using 6500rpms with just a Muffler was rated 26hp in 1971. TNT's and the Blizzards used the same better Ported Cylinder, the Blizzards used a Higher CR, Higher Rpms, and used a Tuned Pipe. The 340 Blizzard was actually (78.5mm x 70mm) 338.9cc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  16. Mar 4, 2018 #16

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    Back when I was playing a lot with 2 strokes, motul was about the best you could get. You had to pay for it, though. I used Putoline, good oil with a non hideous price. Bel Ray is ok stuff. Amsoil is not as good as it's hype. I've taken to using stihl or husqvarna oil in lawn gear. Easy to find synthetic and way better than the gas station junk.
    Flash point is the temperature something will burn.
     
  17. Mar 4, 2018 #17

    proppastie

    proppastie

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    Well not into guessing, or fiddling with an engine so if Motul is the best then high flash point is better? Seems like if it burns up (low flash point?) it would not oil foul.
     
  18. Mar 5, 2018 #18

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    There's way more to oil than the flash point. If if doubt, follow the manufacturers recomendations, here's Rotax's
     
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  19. Mar 7, 2018 #19

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    I wrote Hirth Engines.

    "Hello Rich, Flash Point: > 230 ºF / > 110 ºC 1250 hours is the most we have heard, we have another customer with 900 hours. Matt - RPE"


    On 3/6/2018 7:00 AM, EmailMeForm wrote:
    Name*: RICH
    Email*: ARMILITE
    Phone Number:
    Subject*: BLUE MAX OIL
    Message*: What is the Flash Point Temp of this Blue Max Oil? What's the Highest Hours you have seen someone using it have?
    Thanks
    Rich

    Off a Bike site:
    (fahrenheit):
    1. Motul 800 2T Factory Line "Offroad" is 485.6 degrees!!!! <--- :jawdrop: contain a LOT of veggie and coconut derivatives.
    2. Bel-Ray H1-R has a flashpoint of 435.2 degrees It also burns really clean on one aircraft motor piston test i saw.
    3. Motul 800 2T Factory Line "Road Racing" is 284 degrees.
    4. Amsoil Saber Outboard is 248 degrees.
    5. Maxima K2 has a flashpoint of 240 degrees.
    6. Amsoil Saber Professional is 237 degrees.
    6.5 Hirth Blue Max Synthetic 230 degrees. 1250/900 hours.
    7. Redline Racing Synthetic is 217 degrees.
    8. Pennzoil Multi-purpose 2 cycle oil is 212 degrees.
    9. Bel-Ray MC-1 is 208.4 degrees.
    10. Golden Spectro 2T is 205 degrees.
    11. Amsoil Dominator is 198 degrees.
    12. Spectro "Golden" SX is 196 degrees.
    13. Spectro "Platinum" SX is 191 degrees.
    14. Amsoil Interceptor is 187 degrees.
    15. Golden Spectro Injector is 178 degrees.
    16. Valvoline 2 Stroke motorcycle oil is 172 degrees.
    17. Torco GP-7 is only 74 degrees and that **** smells like soap!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  20. Mar 7, 2018 #20

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    Re: AMSOIL vs HIRTH BLUEMAX OIL

    AMSOIL SABER® Professional Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil. used either 80:1 or 100:1 Ratio.
    vs
    HIRTH BLUE MAX OIL.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018

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