Jungster 1 & 2 aircraft

[Dominic Eller]

Hi Dom, I just found this site and the Jungster Forum. I’m going to travel to NY next week to pick up the Jungster project. I tried contacting Howard about getting plans, didn’t hear back, now I know why. Always hard to hear of individuals passing. Hopefully rights to plans can be secured, much history to be gained.

Regarding the plans. What sort of cost /process is it to get the rights?
I personally would like to see them improved ( perhaps slowly work at getting all metal sheet parts put into CNC format) and made freely available to anyone wanting to have a digital set.
Not sure if that’s a popular idea to people or what legal aspects are involved especially in the USA?
It would be neat to clarify the plans and include more detail on the controls etc..

 

[Fighting 14]

Thanks TFF I will check that out. That's a good idea. I think there are some rod ends which can be adjusted. Moving the pushrod closer to the hinge is going to bring more rudder movement per the amount of rudder pedal movement. That would be bad, but if I change rudder pedal ratio in the direction of more movement per given rudder throw, then I could solve both problems. Good idea and I will look carefully at my range of adjustments using the rod ends in the system. May need to move the position of where the push rods attach to the rudder bellcrank attached to the firewall, inboard some in order to get more pedal movement for for rudder throw. That would also make the rudder heavier.
Thanks!! Or would moving those pushrods on the firewall bell crank do anything?? Maybe the only way to change the ratio is to lengthen or shorten the rods coming down from the rudder pedals. In any event that is a lot of work, and moving the pushrod at the tail may also have clearance problems where it exits the fuselage. Never easy is it. But I will look hard at it. Dominic, not sure how I would mount bungees. Maybe the best is to just fly it the way it is.

 

[Fighting 14]

Heres the setup again along with another view showing more of the linkage.

 

[TFF]

The pedal bellcrank has an interesting hinge placement. If you moved the pedal rods inward, it would take away leverage; up the force some. It will move the rudder a little less per foot movement, less sensitive. You would have to flip the long pushrod and the pedal one because it looks like rod ends would bind. Mocking it without drilling will be a challenge, to see if it works like you want. Like you said, moving the rod in at the rudder will make it move more, even if it ups the pressure some.

 

[Fighting 14]

Thanks TFF.

 

[Dominic Eller]

Here is the data base of jungsters, I cant remember where I came acorss this. It's not complete and needs updating so if anyone knows things about some of them then feel free to update the sheet. I havent updated N701D yet.

 

[Fighting 14]

Thanks for the data Dominic. Had a chance to taxi F-14 today. The springs help in a noticeable way. I am happy with the rudder control now. Still too windy for my IA to fly over. Classic mountain wave with an approaching cold front and wind across the runway from both sides gusting up to 30. Snow and more of the same in the forecast. Welcome to Windy Wyoming.

 

[Fighting 14]

Just saw tow of these engines advertised in Barnstormers, under Bucker. I know nothing about Tigre engines other than they were the engine used on the Spanish Buckers. They make 125 hp. The engines are listed as in the original crate 2 for $6000.

General characteristics

• Type: Four-cylinder, in-line, inverted, air-cooled
• Bore: 120 mm (4.72 in)
• Stroke: 140 mm (5.512 in)
• Displacement: 6.3 L (386.3 in³)
• Length: 1144 mm (43.89 in)
• Width: 400 mm (15.76 in)
• Height: 877 mm (34.55 in)
• Dry weight: 120 kg (264 lbs)

 

[Fighting 14]

An equivalent horse power O-290 weighs about 230 lb. dry.
For comparison;
Specifications (O-320-A1A)[edit]
Data from TYPE CERTIFICATE DATA SHEET NO. E-274 Revision 20[2]

General characteristics

• Type: Four-cylinder air-cooled horizontally opposed engine
• Bore: 5.125 in (130.18 mm)
• Stroke: 3.875 in (98.43 mm)
• Displacement: 319.8 cu in (5.24 l)
• Dry weight: 244 lb (111 kg)

Maybe someone would have an interest in using this engine? I make no recommendation, only passing along what I saw.

 

[Fighting 14]

Here is a link to Steve Beaver's Bucker site which provides first hand experience with this type engine.

The E.N.M.A. Tigre

sbeaver.com

 

[TFF]

Bucker and engines can be polarizing. There are people who modern engines for modern performance and safety is important, and there are ones who want restoration and vintage visuals. It’s usually free range for the Jungmann and restoration correct for the Jungmeister.

My buddy’s Jungmann had Lycoming. Another close by had Lycoming but he also had an unrestored Spanish one with a Tigre and the old military fabric. I’m personally drawn to the vintage but would be happy with the other. I would never try and stick a Tigre on a Jungster. It’s just not a big enough airplane to carry it. A Jungster is so much smaller a than a Jungmeister or Jungmann. I had another friend who inherited his dads Jungmann and I said it needed to be a 2 seat Jungmeister with radial. He did not like the idea of more weight. It had a Lycoming.

I think the only Jungster I have seen in person is the one painted like the P6E. It was really pretty. Here is a not so good picture of my friend’s Jungmann with an old RC plane of mine.

 

[Fighting 14]

Nice model! I bet it flew well. Yes I think you are right. Putting a Tigre on a Jungster would put a long nose on it. The Tigre is 14 inches longer and that would be a big issue. Sorry guys for posting this stuff. Forget the Tigre.

 

[TFF]

It’s good to know those engines are out there for just in case of a different project.
The best part of the RC Jungmeister is it looks like the real thing in the air with the mannerisms. It’s a 10 ft model. Any closer and you can really see the model in it.

 

[BJC]

I know nothing about Tigre engines

Nor do I, but ..

My buddy’s Jungmann had Lycoming.

... I actually considered buying a Jungmann back in the 1990’s, but passed on it because the owner consistently had problems with the Tigre engine, and no one in the area knew how fix it.

Would love to have one with a parallel valve IO-360 Lycoming.


BJC

 

[Dominic Eller]

That would be great! Thanks.

Skybaby9, hope you are well, sorry this took so long, hope it helps.
It’s PDF printable version of the ribs, it has the aileron and the inboard ribs.

 

[Fighting 14]

Wing gap fairings about done. Constructed a stub wing plug from blue styrofoam and laid up my carbon fiber twill.
Makes a very light weight flexible fairing. Use scissors to trim. Also very easy to modify the fit along the leading and trailing edges by using a heat gun to precisely fit them on the airplane. Very very easy and fast!! Now in the process of painting them to match the wing. I think you can make a plug like I did or you could make flat pieces and with the aid of the heat gun fit them to the wing. I did this with a single layer of carbon fiber twill and epoxy resin. I used a porous teflon fabric peel ply. They look very good unpainted, but I decided to match them to the paint. Pics to follow when they are done. Winds and weather pretty bad all week. Wind gusts to 50 knots yesterday, 28 knots today.

 

[Littlemoose]

In need of assistance. I have a set of plans for the Jungster 1 but it does not include any wing rib drawings. I believe these were long ago lost as this set of plans were purchased by my father in the early 70's but never constructed. I have pulled them out to build a 1/2 scale model of the Jungster for R/C. If anyone has information on the wing ribs, a cad file, or any other documentation that I could use to produce my scaled wing ribs, I would greatly appreciate the assistance. I can also keep this forum posted on the progress of the scaled model if anyone would like for me to do so.

 

[Fighting 14]

Welcome LM. If you look above at the last post by Dominic Eller you will find what you are looking for. There is a PDF file of the ribs. What a coincidence! Speaking of Dominic, anyone know where has he gone? Dom are you up on the frequency?

 

[Littlemoose]

Thank you Fighting 14. I saw the post heading of Skybaby and did not look further. Great to have these!

 

[Fighting 14]

LM, I have drawings with the life size wing rib, in fact I just used them to make a paper rib pattern. Looks like the PDF I just referred you to does not have any dimensions. We will figure this out.