fuse welding

[racer956]

What is the best way to wweld the fuselage? I am an expert at mig welding and a modest tig welder. I was told it would be best to gas weld it. What are all your thoughts? Thanks

 

[Raceair]

Gas weld it if you are new to welding high carbon, thinwall 4130. If You are good at TIG, that's great too. I do not recommend MIG on aircraft fuselage strucures..A few very talented people might be able to mig an airframe, but it's not a high quality weld. It's a high production weld, certainly not something you need to worry about if building one Sonerai fuselage...Ed

 

[n6824d]

I agree with ED. I TIG weld for a living and I would gas weld it. As you know you only have about a Max of 1/8" when tigging as far as placement of your electrode to your work. The torch is much more forgiving as far as placement when welding around all of the tubing. Plus you still need to go back and heat up all of your weld clusters with a torch to stress relieve them anyway and the torch would be needed for that unless you can put the fuselage in a big oven like Air Tractor, Inc. does to their fuselages after Tig welding. Kevin

 

[oahupilot]

I am not a pro welder or expert in welding but I have never seen any technical literature or our professional documentation proving that heating up the cluster can properly treat the cluster. I imagine if it is functional to do with a torch then their are published standards by astm or some other professional organization detailing results. Any one ever read of them are heard of them?

 

[[email protected]]

Hello everyone, i am new to this forum and also to the sonerai construction, i have just received my plans for the sonerai II stretch, and i was asking myself the same question, i have only equipment to arc weld and i am a mid skilled arc welder, i was thinking of 6010 electrodes of 3/32" to weld my fuselage, any comments? do you think it would be safe to arc weld the fuselage? Best Regards

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hello everyone, i am new to this forum and also to the sonerai construction, i have just received my plans for the sonerai II stretch, and i was asking myself the same question, i have only equipment to arc weld and i am a mid skilled arc welder, i was thinking of 6010 electrodes of 3/32" to weld my fuselage, any comments? do you think it would be safe to arc weld the fuselage? Best Regards

I wouldn't. Stinson, for instance, arc welded their fuselages, and normalized them in a giant oven with the fuse bolted in a *very* sturdy fixture.
The only weld failures I've seen in a gently crashed airplane were on a Stinson..

 

[brunopitts]

Go to the Lincoln site and you will find some good information about 4130 welding.

 

[[email protected]]

chuck, thank you for your advise, i am going to take it, i searched the web for days and found no project arc welded, Bruno, i went to the Lincoln site and they talk about TIG for 4130 welding, so, now my budget and schedule has been modified, i will start looking for a TIG equipment and see if i can take some welding classes to learn the basics. again thank you very much. regards.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Tig and ER80S-D2 for filler will make perfectly acceptable aircraft welds. The downside? The equipment is expen$ive, and it is not nearly as forgiving on joint fit and cleanliness compared to a torch.
Just my 2cents..

 

[racer956]

I have a miller syncrowave 200 that I bought about two years ago. I have been using it on my sonerai air frame with 1/16 red tungsten and er70-s welding wire. I am not an expert but seem to be producing some god welds. I just ordered a sharpener for the tungsten tips. I think the welds will be even better once I have that. I have read so much on the pre-heat and no pre-heat that I dont know what to belive. I will heat the metal with a mapp gas torch just to burn any crap out and the temp seems to range around 140-200 degrees, of course it depends on how long you hold it on there. Thats just my opinion.

 

[radfordc]

Years ago I had a MIG welded steel tube fuselage. This was on an Airbike kit and was welded by Jim Boyle for TEAM. The welding was good, but there have been issues with cracked tubes near the weld clusters. Probably best to gas weld.

Charlie

 

[Tortoise man]

I live in south africa and bought plans 10 min ago for the stretch 11 thanks for the welding tips i tought i haveto buy a mig welder it is my first plane projeck

 

[tonykasabasich]

I too am a pro welder and my advise is gas weld it. Gas welding is the cheapest, easiest, and most forgiving way to weld tubing this thin. Anything else is gonna cause problems you don't wanna have.

Tony K

 

[heisan]

I live in south africa and bought plans 10 min ago for the stretch 11 thanks for the welding tips i tought i haveto buy a mig welder it is my first plane projeck

Check with your AP, but I am pretty sure you will need a certified welder to do the actual welding. SA CAA requirements are much stricter than US FAA requirements.

 

[pacerpilot]

Gas is the way to go. You'll have a larger heat affected area but that will help "normalize" the weld joint as it cools. Don't quench!!! It is highly recommended to get a good welding manual or instruction before starting, this will save you money in the long run because you won't have to start over. My wife has recommended that I Scotch tape my next fuselage together-I'm sure she's joking!

 

[brunopitts]

There is no secret, practice and practice.....and you're ready ,start with something simple like the rudder pedal, you will be able to turn it over and if you junk it, you won't lose a lot of money.

 

[Bil4381]

This is my second aircraft now with a chromoly tube fuselage. It's a Pitts S-1. The tubes and most clusters are gas welded since it's so much easier and doesn't need to be annealed or doesn't need it as much.
The clusters and fittings for wing and gear attachment are TIG Welded and will be annealed by torch.

Also there are dozens of tabs a clips of .025" sheet. These are TIG welded since the heat is so hard to control with gas, i.e. say .025 sheet onto .062 tubing. I don't recall there being many of these clips on the SII, for example the cross section of the fuselage is nearly square; the Pitts is nearly round.

All this is to say both TIG and gas have their place.
Bill

 

[n3480h1]

I'm an experienced mig welder, and a gas welding noob, but in my opinion anyone with 20 hour's experience and common sense can Oxy-Acetylene weld .125" 4130 sheet to .035" 4130 tubing, or .025" tabs to a tube cluster. All that's needed is to bias the heat toward the thicker part. Match the heated steel's colors and weld. My seat belt and shoulder harness tabs (.125") are done this way. You can see the results in my gallery. It is not difficult if a noob like me can do it and produce good welds. I could not break the test pieces apart with a vise and a 3 pound steel wedge hammer.

I guess if a builder is flu$h he could go buy OA and a Tig setup.

Tom

 

[JayWelchy]

So I am feeling the gas weld preference here, and am willing to learn that side. I am good with my Mig welder ... havent Tig, nor do I want to spend the cash at this point on the equipment.

Simply put, will a good Mig welder produce a safe and strong airframe?? If gas is the only way to go other than Tig, I will go that way. I would need to learn that style of welding .. which as good as I am with Mig, makes me a bit nervous. And I was chatting with a co-worker/pilot, and he seemed horrified at gas, as he thinks it is still brazing ...

**Edit .. after reading every welding article I could find in here, I think OA is the way to go on the airframe with mig used to tack, etc. **

 

[eschrom]

To answer your question, yes, a MIG welder will produce a safe and strong airframe. OA has the advantage on the tight clusters where it's difficult to get a MIG nozzle exactly where you want it, but when the joint is wide open and can be positioned on a bench, MIG will make a perfectly good weld.

Since you already have the equipment and experience, why not give it a go on something simple like a rudder pedal? Use .023 wire and as skinny a nozzle as you can find.

Ed