Mazda 13b w/ Tracy Redrive

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Lendo

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rv7charlie, I didn't know that, but I do remember Richard from the early days of the single Rotor where he sandwiched half Al. and half cast iron housing, but adapted to my suggestion of using only the cast Iron wear Plate - which is still being copied by some. For myself, I tested the weight but found the plate is still too heavy IMHO, but a thinner plate tends to tin-can under side seal loads. It seems Powersport solved that issue with the Superlight Oven Brazed light steel engine. Bottom line is the wear surface requires a good supported integral (to the housing) substrate.
George
 

Urquiola

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Aug 23, 2013
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Madrid, Spain
In the Le Mans long endurance race winning RCE, Mazda added MoS2 to oil, see SAE paper 920309; SAE paper 922375.
LiquiMoly of Germany suggests adding 1 cc of their Mo additive for each litre of oil in gasoline mix, expert Mazda RCE users (www.rotaryeng.net) indicate always adding at least 1% of lubricating oil directly to fuel, oil pumps sometimes fail, this a cheap and easy safety step. There was Molykote A MoS2 additive to be added to engine oil.
Don't know why, but I won't use MoS2 additive in oil radiator cooled engines, such as avionized versions of Citroën twin-flat engines.
Not all oils are same, not every RCE accepts same oil, while Citroën advised Total GTS 20 W 50, for their Comotor Birotor engine in GS, a Multigrade oil is good for Cold Starts, Norton, for their Liquid Cooled birotor, banned multigrade oils.
Sachs Air Cooled Housing, Charge Cooled Rotor engines indicated SAE 30 oil; for hot weather: SAE 40.

The oil giving better results ever in Sachs engines was Shell Rotella, available in Vintage Tractors and other sites, other oils generated lots of ashes and gums, it can block seals, destroying engine.

In the early days of Wankel Engines, gas was leaded; lead additives acting as a solid lubricant, ceasing lead in gasoline requires an extra amount of oil, Aixro indicates Mobil 1 Racing 2T, 50:1; Spanish Aixro dealer indicates 4%; too much oil can foul plug, too little, increase wear. RCE is very good for Ethanol in gasoline mixes, SAE Paper 840237, M Gutman.

About cooling, the SAE paper 741091, by G A Paul, Dow chemical, shown better results with a coolant fluid based in propylen glycol, instead of the usual, and poisonous, ethylenglycol.
There is a Navarra based company, Pequinsa, producing such a coolant liquid for Solar energy installations, 'Solar 57', where 57 stands for the propylenglycol content. This company is now in the orbit of Soros or Buffet or other transnational investors.
I purchased several cans of this Solar 57 cooling liquid for my 1987 NA Mazda 13B, but not installed it yet.
Blessings +
P Lamar, of www.rotaryeng.net published a booklet: 'How to cool your Wankel'. Blessings +
 

Meyersg

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May 25, 2021
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My partners and I have a 13b with the Tracy conversion in our KIS TR-4. It flys great but we are considering going to a higher HP engine. Thus the complete firewall forward engine and electronics (EC2) may be for sale soon. We bought it built but can give you a few lessons learned.
 

Lendo

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Meyersg - a Higher HP Engine !? perhaps it's a standard configuration, not a Peripheral Ported Engine?
 

Meyersg

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According to the manual and original test results, hp should be between 150 and 180. We would like to get 200 - 220. It may not be cost effective but dreams some times come true. At altitude and 6000 rpm, we can get 130k.
 

FinnFlyer

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Nov 19, 2019
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Bell, FL
My partners and I have a 13b with the Tracy conversion in our KIS TR-4. It flys great but we are considering going to a higher HP engine. Thus the complete firewall forward engine and electronics (EC2) may be for sale soon. We bought it built but can give you a few lessons learned.
Is it a 2.17:1 PSRU (RD-1B)?

I think the original poster was looking for a RD-1C (2.85:1).

Finn
 

Meyersg

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I would have to check the model number but I know it is 2.85. The plane was finished from a kit in 2009.
 

rv7charlie

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Pocahontas MS
I've only heard of a couple of KIS being built with rotaries, and only one that actually flew. Is this the one built by Bill S?
 

Meyersg

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I'm not that smart but don't think it is a Renesis. The engine is late 1990s as I recall. The installation and engineering is top notch. If we could just get a few more knots.........
 

dwalker

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Tennessee
I'm not that smart but don't think it is a Renesis. The engine is late 1990s as I recall. The installation and engineering is top notch. If we could just get a few more knots.........
So the Renesis will give you more power than the older NA engine, and it would be worth the time and effort to swap it out. MOST, but not all, of the bits you have will swap right over.
 

Meyersg

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We discussed it and even considered a turbo version but with the KIS cowling, we are afraid we would be cooling limited. We recently added fans on the radiators for climb out. Temperatures in Florida are much warmer than Bill experienced up north.
 

Lendo

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rv7charlie/ dwalker, it's great that the Renesis power is up on the 13B NA engine, however reliable information to me is the 13B Peripheral Ported engine is still more powerful and would deliver all the power Myersg wanted. Perhaps discuss with Bill S.
Just suggestions!
George
 

dwalker

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rv7charlie/ dwalker, it's great that the Renesis power is up on the 13B NA engine, however reliable information to me is the 13B Peripheral Ported engine is still more powerful and would deliver all the power Myersg wanted. Perhaps discuss with Bill S.
Just suggestions!
George
I actually think we need to get some terminology straight first-

Renesis is the MSP engine- which stands for multi-side port. It has the standard side port intake and a side port exhaust configuration. It makes its power based on higher compression, intake manifold valves/tuning, and the "6th port" valves all of which work together to deliver the broadest and most usable power band of any NA rotary ever. Despite claims, the best stock engines in the car will only make about 185whp. Intelligent use of ALL the available performance upgrades- intake/air filter assembly, ecu tuning, and exhaust, will net about 195whp, and my race cars, with an expensive tuned exhaust made 224whp. These figure translate into roughly 200, 210, and 235 flywheel hp, depending on the math model used. For clarity, I am speaking of the 6-port "high output motor" only, as the 4-port motors fitted to the automatics in the US and the "base" cars in ROW markets are not relevant in this discussion.

The 13B NA as used in the FB/FC street cars was anemic from the factory and made, depending on year, 140 or 160 flywheel horsepower. These are peripheral port exhaust (with cast in baffle that restricts flow) and side intake ports. The absolute best I have ever seen from a factory 6-port NA motor is about 180 honest horsepower, and it was a struggle to get there.

The 13B-T is the Turbo Rx7 FC engine in the 2nd generation cars, it has a peripheral port exhaust with no baffle and is a "4-port"side intake configuration. In stock configuration it makes over 200whp, depending on boost level.

The 13-B REW is the 3rd generation Rx7 and came twin-turbocharged. Stock it made over 240whp and in near stock configuration would make just under 400whp (but the turbos would not live long). I have seen the stock "keg" (shortblock if you will) of a mid-milage 13BREW make 900hp with bolt-ons. These engines are again, peripheral port exhaust, and side intake ports.


Often, when people talk of high-output NA motors with peripheral ports, they are speaking of the peripheral port intake housings. These may still be available from mazda new, but are relatively easy for a rotary machinist to create. IF- and I seriously meah IF your machinists gets the intake port sizing and timing correct, and IF you or your assembler modifies the rotors for higher compression and IF you have a good flowbench shop work your intake manifold/plenum, then you can make relatively high power from an NA 13B. In the mid to upper 200range. Get it right and it will be an amazing engine. This can be a bit of a process, and why I almost never mention it.

Also, YES, you can have motors ported and tuned and all sorts of things, which work with varying degrees of success and value in cars, but for an airplane... it would give me pause. Also adds all the fuel to the "you will add a year to your build, or more, over using a Lycosaur" argument.

However, with absolutely the smallest effort on the part of an aircraft builder/owner, a brand new in the crate 13B REW can be ordered straight from Mazda (through Mazdaspeed if you know a Mazda racer) for roughly $4500USD. A single turbo arrangement can be fitted and with relatively low boost being run, 300hp is easily possible using all brand new parts.

Alternatively, it looks like the Renesis will be offered as a brand new in crate motor from Mazda- not a reman, in the same price range, and deliver its 180hp.

I have a thread on my personal build of the 13B, and I am doing things I would not advise for most people, but I have a lot of history of doing ill advised things, and I see no reason to change what works for me.
 

Lendo

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Feb 6, 2013
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dwalker, you are correct straight-in and straight-out breathing is best for Power any restrictions are a power killer. Straight in with right sized PP enhances the Volumetric Efficiency and straight-out is best for exhaust scavenging. That's what concerns me about the side inlet and outlet, however you have more experience than me. Also PP is an art on it's own to achieve correct inlet sizing and reliability against leaking, but I believe that has also been solved.
George
 
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