Battery recommendation for Kawasaki 340 engine

[keith103]

Hi forum, I am looking to buy a 12 V battery with 15 to 20 AH rating, for electric start of a Kawasaki 340 on my Part 103 ultralight. I have read many threads on this board about 12 V lithium iron batteries already being used on home-built airplanes. Weight is an issue for my build, as I am already close to Pt 103 limits, and that is why I have no other option except to go for a light battery under 5 lbs.

Can someone who has actually bought one of these, and who is actually using one of these batteries on his airplane, give me a lead / recommendation on which battery to buy. The more I search, the more options are thrown up, making the choice even harder. So I concluded it is best to ask some home builder who has experience with these batteries, if he would like to suggest a specific make / model. Price around 200.00 ( give or take ) will work for me.

Thanks in advance for any leads you can give.

 

[pictsidhe]

Do you know how much current the starter takes?

 

[keith103]

Do you know how much current the starter takes?

Actually, no. But the guy who sold me this engine with starter motor already set up, said
the recommended battery is 12 V 12-18 AH.
The starter motor is Bosch H 12 A 103, but it has no amperage written on the label.

 

[Derswede]

One thing to try is to wander down to your local Horror Fright Store (harbour Freight) and look at their Lithium Iron Jumpstart power pack. I have two and love em. USB port, 12 v out port and 450A peak starting current. You do have to push a button to activate it, I consider it my interlock. With a bit of wiring, extend the starter cables to reach the starter, mount the pack near the engine, and use the wall wart charger to top it up. I have started diesel trucks with the one I have. Amazon may have a similar product, but worth checking out. Light, as well (2 lbs). Not all the stuff at HF is total junk.

Derswede

 

[keith103]

Derswede, Thanks for your input. I will certainly take a look at what they carry in Harbor Freight on my next visit to that store.

The question that intrigues me is why there is so much of price difference in these batteries. I have given a few links below to illustrate the price spectrum. I think they are all lithium iron ( not lithium ion which is more prone to heating and catching fire )

https://www.amazon.com/Lithium-Motorcycle-Powersports-Management-YTX20L-BS/dp/B01FS4IKUE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1532633243&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=12v+lithium+ion+battery&psc=1

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/pulse3battery.php?clickkey=35652


http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/earthxbatteries.php?clickkey=12664

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079V1B82Y?aaxitk=X8hpeUpr3O.OC64vuEIbaA&pd_rd_i=B079V1B82Y&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3930100107420870094&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=12v+lithium+ion+battery+anti+gravity&hsa_cr_id=8410563980801


https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-Battery-Phosphate-Starting/dp/B01789EJKC/ref=sr_1_38?ie=UTF8&qid=1532633640&sr=8-38&keywords=12v+lithium+battery​

Any suggestions and tips appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Derswede]

Derswede, Thanks for your input. I will certainly take a look at what they carry in Harbor Freight on my next visit to that store. The question that intrigues me is why there is so much of price difference in these batteries. I have given a few links below to illustrate the price spectrum. I think they are all lithium iron ( not lithium ion which is more prone to heating and catching fire )

https://www.amazon.com/Lithium-Motorcycle-Powersports-Management-YTX20L-BS/dp/B01FS4IKUE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1532633243&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=12v+lithium+ion+battery&psc=1 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/pulse3battery.php?clickkey=35652 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/earthxbatteries.php?clickkey=12664 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079V1B82Y?aaxitk=X8hpeUpr3O.OC64vuEIbaA&pd_rd_i=B079V1B82Y&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3930100107420870094&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=12v+lithium+ion+battery+anti+gravity&hsa_cr_id=8410563980801 https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-Battery-Phosphate-Starting/dp/B01789EJKC/ref=sr_1_38?ie=UTF8&qid=1532633640&sr=8-38&keywords=12v+lithium+battery​

Any suggestions and tips appreciated. Thanks

Lots of the difference is "charge what the market will bear"on individual packs. My purpose for buying one was at first a very lightweight jump assist for my Triumph bike (Lucas Electrics...!). After looking at it and disassembling it (not recommended, I'm a geek EE), I thought that it solved several problems for a couple of applications I was thinking up. One of my hobbies is amateur radio, and light powerful batteries are always interesting. After some......ahem, "interesting failures" using std. LION cells, the LIFE cells started coming out. Tho pricey, less chance of thermal runaway and fires. As charge rates are rather important for all Lithium batteries, the advantage of being able to use an off the shelf solution was interesting. I also have several USB devices, so the integrated port was nice. I discovered (at least on the two I have) that having power draw off of the 12V port will keep the unit active. Important with a radio. My second unit is currently being used as portable power for a small HF amateur radio. I have run it literally all day, charged it for a few hours, then ran it a second day. i actually have a small solar panel that can charge the unit when no AC available for the wall wart. Think it weighs in at 2 lbs. I snagged my first on sale for $60 or so, cheaper than some advertise the separate packs for, and all the interface is built in. At least worth considering for starting and inflight avionics, Ipad, etc. Even has a built in light...landing light? (Not bright enough). Derswede

 

[Topaz]

...Lucas Electrics...! ...

I'm sorry. So, so, so very sorry.

I also have done battle with the Prince of Darkness. :roll:

 

[pictsidhe]

This place is full of British vehicle masochists. Or do I mean fans? No, I don't...

 

[Derswede]

Getting British electrics to behave is along the same lines as getting the wife happy that you just brought home a "project" which by definition is either covered in dust, dirt and other things which women hate. (You guys, whose wives do not complain about such things, do not know how lucky you are). Time, patience, and LOTS of beer (applies to wives and Lucas Electrics). I have owned several British cars and helped with a few planes from England as well. Ended up simply rewiring the entire bird. I am down with a busted knee for 5-6 weeks or so, the wife's "To-Do list" still increases. I may never get back in the air at this point. But I will be doing some flying ( in a 150...is that actually flying??).

Sigh, y'all have a good weekend! I shall be doing battle with Lucas electrics this weekend!

Derswede

 

[keith103]

I was looking at this link. Model 10L is rated for 360 CCA and 18 AH.

https://store.schnitzracing.com/pulse-ipt-lithium-battery-p-10/

 

[Armilite]

A guy years ago had a different Brand Lithium 200CCA on a Kawasaki 440 on his Ultralight for over 3 years with No Problems, so I bought a Battery Tender Brand 240CCA Lithium Battery off Amazon for $98 for my Yamaha VMax 600cc 2 Stroke Engine. I have used it now for 2+ years, and I Love it. Engine Starts Better than with old Acid Battery.

Only thing with Lithiums they say in my Reseach is they don't like real Cold, but Lead Acid Batterys don't either. For my Sled, since it's used only in the Winter, and these Lithiums are Smaller than convenial Acid Batties, I encase the Bottom and Sides in Blue House Foam I believe it was 1.5" and left the Top Open.

They say without Charging them if at Full Charge, they will Restart an Engine around 20-22 Times. I never put it to that Test. My Sled Engine charges mine up. Never had to put a Jump Start on it. Even in Warm Whether I usually Start it once a month for 15 minutes.

This is the Lithium Battery I bought for $98. That's not my Battery Mount, but I like it to mount the Battery Close to the Engine.

It's always Best to keep your Battery Cables as Short as you can. My Lithium Battery was I think 2.4lbs.

 

[Armilite]

Off Amazon.

Like anything, it Pays to Shop around. Any Lithium Battery 200-300 CCA should work ok for your Kawasaki 340.

YTZ10S Z10S Lithium Ion Sealed Powersports Battery 12V 300 CCA - Maintenance Free, No Spills, Fully Charged and Activated, Ready to Use (MMG4)
by MMG
$109.00 $ 109 00 Prime
FREE Shipping


Schumacher WM-12 Cable Connector for Battery Charger/Maintainer
by Schumacher
$4.00 $ 4 00 Prime

 

[cheapracer]

I'm sorry. So, so, so very sorry.

I'm a mod at a car site and get to approve new members, sort of goes like this ..

Tom Smith, America - likes Chevs, Fords,hot rods etc = Pass

Ngiu Ashim, Nigerian Prince - Car enthusiast apparently = Pass, but monitor his posts in case spammer trying to slip in.

Bob Mathews, England - Classic Land Rover Collector = RED LIGHT, NO WAY!!!

 

[pictsidhe]

So, I shouldn't mention my Rover based kitcar?

 

[Derswede]

If it is using the nailhead V8, it is fine...those are Buick engines, the design was sold to Rover. The "Nailhead Buick V8", according to my father, was a nice little engine, which got used in lots of "hot-rod" conversions. My father built race cars for Jim and Speedy Thompson. Heck with roosters waking you up...when he fired the race car up, the neighborhood got up. He had two model A's, one with a built flathead V8 Ford, the other with a Buick V8 installed. I was too young to drive them (5 yrs old, did not start driving until 8), but loved to go riding in one of them.

Derswede

 

[keith103]

YTZ10S Z10S Lithium Ion Sealed Powersports Battery 12V 300 CCA - Maintenance Free, No Spills, Fully Charged and Activated, Ready to Use (MMG4)
by MMG
$109.00 $ 109 00 Prime
FREE Shipping

Yes I too saw this battery on Amazon. The reason I did not consider this, is because it was Lithium ION, and not lithium iron phosphate. Lithium battery technology is of course being constantly improved, as they are more and more widely used, so may be this phobia for ION has no place today. ( There is an older thread in this forum where it asks to stay away from Li ION batteries as they are prone to heating and catching fire. )

 

[BBerson]

YTZ10S appears to be lead acid.
https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/YTZ10S.html

 

[Armilite]

YTZ10S appears to be lead acid.
https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/YTZ10S.html

Yes, the YTZ10S you show appears to be Acid Maintenace free 8lbs.

The one I showed is YTZ10S Z10S Lithium Ion off Amazon. I didn't see it's Weight. Said 1/3 the weight of Standard battery.
https://www.amazon.com/YTZ10S-Lithium-Sealed-Powersports-Battery/dp/B00DCXC9AQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533783709&sr=8-1&keywords=YTZ10S+Z10S+Lithium+Ion+Sealed+Powersports+Battery+12V+300+CCA

 

[Armilite]

Yes I too saw this battery on Amazon. The reason I did not consider this, is because it was Lithium ION, and not lithium iron phosphate. Lithium battery technology is of course being constantly improved, as they are more and more widely used, so may be this phobia for ION has no place today. ( There is an older thread in this forum where it asks to stay away from Li ION batteries as they are prone to heating and catching fire. )

============================================================
Way Earlier Batterys had problems Charging with conventinal Chargers, that has been fixed a long time ago even before I got my first Lithium. That's a pretty good Price for 300CCA. I paid $98 for My Battery Tender 240CCA.

 

[BBerson]

Does that lithium battery have an internal cell management system?
Risk of overcharge without proper charger.