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VW engine hp

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Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
24
Location
Princeton BC Canada
Hi there My question is engine choice, Take the 2180 VW motor rated at 70 hp,
some are looking at Rotax 912s 100hp. The VW 2180 could be made to put out
120 hp without losings reliability. Is this true, or does one run into problems.
 
After reading some of R.S. Hoovers posts, it seems that the vw engine started out as being a 35 hp engine, and has been souped up by putting larger cylinders on it to the point where it has an output of 75-80 hp. The unforunate thing about it is however, that the cylinder heads are basically the same, meaning this hp can only be achieved until they reach their thermal limit, and that time can be as little as 5 minutes when climbing . To try to make this engine produce any more power would make matters be even worse. It could be done, but the useful life of the engine would be a matter of hours. So what we have here is an engine that can put out 80 hp for a few minutes to climb out, then lower the nose and throttle back and smile at 130-150 mph. If wanting more, then an engine that can put out 70 hp for an extended period of time is needed. That is the Rotax, perhaps the Jabiru, ect. At that point howerver, you really have to get the checkbook out. Great Plains used to sell water cooled heads, but don't anymore. They were heavier though, as well a water pump , radiator, ect. were required.
Do others on this site agree with my observations ? Thats how the situation looks to me at this time.
 
While I don't subscribe to a lot of what Mr. Hoover has to say, I do believe that 120hp sustained out of a VW is out of the question. The 80hp numbers that are out there today are accurate if the engine is properly cooled and is swinging a propeller that allows the engine to turn some RPM. As replied above, if you're looking for more than 70hp sustained, you should probably be looking for an alternate powerplant.

Chad
 
with 044 heads, the thermal limit is at a higher point and so, if the cooling is optimized, the engine can produce more power.
Remember, for the price of one Rotax, you can buy 2-3 VWs !
Juergen
(Sonerai with >80hp ;D )
 
I can't tell how much HP my 2276 is pumping out,but what I can tell is that my sonerai is a terrific little airplane ,and that the 2276 can easily compare with any other power plant,taking into account the price /HP,and the complexity of any substitute,with their side effect...
Keep it simple,will make it a fine sonerai and also helps keep the price down...
as I often see over 1000ft/min with a passenger,I'm tempted to feel very satisfied...
that's good for me as my wallet can't afford any other engine...

surf on the Webb and you will find out that even High price powerplant
are not as trouble free as one may think...

Gaston
 
pilotsailing said:
After reading some of R.S. Hoovers posts, it seems that the vw engine started out as being a 35 hp engine, and has been souped up by putting larger cylinders on it to the point where it has an output of 75-80 hp. The unforunate thing about it is however, that the cylinder heads are basically the same, meaning this hp can only be achieved until they reach their thermal limit, and that time can be as little as 5 minutes when climbing . To try to make this engine produce any more power would make matters be even worse. It could be done, but the useful life of the engine would be a matter of hours. So what we have here is an engine that can put out 80 hp for a few minutes to climb out, then lower the nose and throttle back and smile at 130-150 mph. If wanting more, then an engine that can put out 70 hp for an extended period of time is needed. That is the Rotax, perhaps the Jabiru, ect. At that point howerver, you really have to get the checkbook out. Great Plains used to sell water cooled heads, but don't anymore. They were heavier though, as well a water pump , radiator, ect. were required.
Do others on this site agree with my observations ? Thats how the situation looks to me at this time.

Sorry, but Mr. Hoover's dissertations often read like government issued propaganda film...

The point that he continually misses is that we all have different expectations. His expectation is that the VW should last as long as a typical purpose built aircraft engine. However, that is different than what many people expect out of a VW conversion.

The other missing point (that he is finally starting to mention) is that its very airframe dependent. To sum up, slow airplane = harder time keeping a VW cool and healthy. Fast = more cooling air and a cooler happier VW.

I wonder if Penn and Teller would be willing to feature this as a topic on their show...
 
Schmleff said:
pilotsailing said:
After reading some of R.S. Hoovers posts, it seems that the vw engine started out as being a 35 hp engine, and has been souped up by putting larger cylinders on it to the point where it has an output of 75-80 hp. The unforunate thing about it is however, that the cylinder heads are basically the same, meaning this hp can only be achieved until they reach their thermal limit, and that time can be as little as 5 minutes when climbing . To try to make this engine produce any more power would make matters be even worse. It could be done, but the useful life of the engine would be a matter of hours. So what we have here is an engine that can put out 80 hp for a few minutes to climb out, then lower the nose and throttle back and smile at 130-150 mph. If wanting more, then an engine that can put out 70 hp for an extended period of time is needed. That is the Rotax, perhaps the Jabiru, ect. At that point howerver, you really have to get the checkbook out. Great Plains used to sell water cooled heads, but don't anymore. They were heavier though, as well a water pump , radiator, ect. were required.
Do others on this site agree with my observations ? Thats how the situation looks to me at this time.

Sorry, but Mr. Hoover's dissertations often read like government issued propaganda film...

The point that he continually misses is that we all have different expectations. His expectation is that the VW should last as long as a typical purpose built aircraft engine. However, that is different than what many people expect out of a VW conversion.

The other missing point (that he is finally starting to mention) is that its very airframe dependent. To sum up, slow airplane = harder time keeping a VW cool and healthy. Fast = more cooling air and a cooler happier VW.

I wonder if Penn and Teller would be willing to feature this as a topic on their show...

Jeff, Any progress on your supercharger conversion?
 
I called the Fuel injection guys in Calgary. They'll sell you anything you want, but installation and engine development is all your. It's just not realistic.
I also looked at a Garratt turbo-superchargers. They were meant to run with Fuel Injection. If one was able to overcome the FI issues, there would be an astonishing amount of heat to dissipate from both the oil and the compressed air.

Further and more important, for the same money I could buy a Jabiru 3300L (new engine) producing say 127 hp on the dyno at 3300 rpm. Admittedly I'd have top sell my J-2200a engine. They still sell here for $10,000 used. That is the engine plus installation kit.
Bill
SII LS
 
I agree 100% with the airframe idea. I believe he was directing his comment towards these airframe. Though ..he never really stated that, though I feel he was, but I may have assumed that since I'm building a CH701. It really is unfortunate that he has passed, more for his family's sake. But we will really never know. A friend of mine has put Bobs Fat Fin mod on his VW powered CH701, a slow and draggy airframe if there ever was one. It does work very well. He was never able to get much static pressure inside the cowl. I believe this is the problem with slow draggy airframes, as they operate at higher power setting, comparable and have less available cooling.
I now am sure I'm using a VW on my 701 ( now that I know I can cool it) and I owe it to Bob.
[/quote]


The other missing point (that he is finally starting to mention) is that its very airframe dependent. To sum up, slow airplane = harder time keeping a VW cool and healthy. Fast = more cooling air and a cooler happier VW.


[/quote]
 
VW engine and fuel consumption

Hello guys,

I have a question and would appreciate your reply. What is your average fuel consumption at vc around 130-140mph? I have heard around 3gph what say ye?
 
I am using about 4.5 gph at 140 ASI @ 3000 RPM. I have a Zenith updraft (tractor type) carburetor. Now I can only say that I fly from 20 to 30 min at a time so this is based on multiple flights over a few days. When the weather breakes here in the mid-south soon I will fly longer and know more.
 
4.5 for me also, at 3200-3300 rpm, 138-140 mph. This is an average figure, total fuel used divided by total flight time. A typical flight includes 2-3 takeoffs and landings.

Ed
2LS, 2180
 
thanks guys,

You two average about the same at the same speed hope some others chime in as well. Dave

Seems like the sonerai was built for small people in its conception.

dave
 
Mouser is currently burning 4 gph @ 130 mph. 3000 rpm. This is a cruise prop for an 1835. This spring, I'm going to put a climb prop on to get a couple of hundred more rpm on takeoff. I hope. ;D
 
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