# Zenith CH-701 Plans Unused

### Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

#### 61colt

It has been my experience that there are a lot of crooks in Arkansas (Bill Clinton perhaps?) I got ripped off by Premium Aircraft Parts of Fort Smith Arkansas a few years ago. They have a legitimate business address( still there) but had a strange-" I'm selling this for a friend" e-mail address. I also note that they don't have a website anymore. I finally gave up on them but keep hoping that some day I will meet the owner (Chris Baker) someplace quiet and pound his a$$. Sorry you got ripped off. #### badger ##### Well-Known Member It has been my experience that there are a lot of crooks in Arkansas (Bill Clinton perhaps?) I got ripped off by Premium Aircraft Parts of Fort Smith Arkansas a few years ago. They have a legitimate business address( still there) but had a strange-" I'm selling this for a friend" e-mail address. I also note that they don't have a website anymore. I finally gave up on them but keep hoping that some day I will meet the owner (Chris Baker) someplace quiet and pound his a$$. Sorry you got ripped off.
Yea, ol Bill learned well, didn't he?

I'm not going to make a big stink about 140 bucks. I am a FIRM believer in the saying "What goes around, comes around." He'll no doubt get his due someday....no doubt. And with any luck, it'll be from someone he stung before, getting "even", as it were.

And, like you also, some day somewhere at an airshow or something, maybe I'll be able to meet him, and have a "nice long friendly talk".....if he's able to speak without his front teeth before I've satisfied my 140 rip off. Yep. I'm pretty old, but I can still hold my own on the dark side of town. So, you never know......what goes around, comes around.....sooner or later!

Thanks for the concern and info.

#### bravoalpha

##### Member
I do recall seeing that same add in barnstormers. When I inquired about the plans he stated I was the first but had a line of other inquires on the plans. Since I was the first he gave me first offer. I got a bad feeling about the deal and told him I wasn't able to do it at that time. I never thought of putting the two together. I sincerely hope you didn't get jacked your money. I hope you get your plans soon, but I am leaning in the same direction as you are and that you got taken. Too bad there wasn't a way to track the son of a b*(&h down. $140 could buy some nice tools for building. I think a computer wiz could probably track down the computer he put the add on at barnstormers. You might consider talking with the baroness and see if any help can be provided on that add. Keep me posted either way. I am hoping for a happy ending. Casey Casey, Well, I aint so sure about it now. I sent him a money order on the 18th for$140.00. It's been near 3 weeks, and I aint heard jack $h!t from anyone about any 701 plans. No phone call, no email.....nothing. Been trying to call him too, and when the phone answers, it's a recording that says "the customers mail box is full and cannot take anymore messages. You can leave your number and it will be sent to his pager." So, I do. 5 times back to back I do, for 3 days now, twice a day. Still nothing. So, I'm just beginning to be thankful that I didn't send him the 3K for that 912 too! How does it go...."if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is?" Beginning to think I'm out$140. The guy sure sounded sincere though. I guess time will tell.

John

#### bravoalpha

##### Member
Great advise Joe! I learned a little something new. Casey

##### Well-Known Member
Casey,

Thanks for the concern, but as of today, still nothing. I'm sure I got took, but I'll guarentee you it sure as hell wont happen again. And I'm a firm believer that one day, some way, he'll get his due. No doubt. People like him usually do.

To me personally, it's not worth the hassle to pursue it, not for $140.00. Maybe the guy needed milk for his kids? Maybe he needed a drink or two? Maybe he needed a tank of gas?? Of course I mean all that sarcastically! The jack a$$.....he'll get his. I just hope I hear about it. Badg #### divad_strebor ##### Well-Known Member Just my 2c, and I probably wouldn't have done this either, but it may have been smart to ask for the serial number on the plans and contact Zenith to verify them? Its funny how good hindsight can be.. Like I said, if it were me I would've gone "Cheap plans?!? CREDIT CARD!!!" in the heat of the moment. #### Bluedog ##### Member I just read this thread and it pisses me off big time. I came from Ga to Ak and there and here, a man's word is where he lives. It is who he is and it destroys my faith in my fellow human being to hear this crap. Someone needs to sue him in small claims or somehow make that SOB pay. I'd offer suggestions but I'd get i trouble. After I read the ad I was interested in it also. Glad I finished reading it and now know to "trust but verify". Caveat Emptor huh? #### Flying Monkey ##### Well-Known Member Casey, Thanks for the concern, but as of today, still nothing. I'm sure I got took, but I'll guarentee you it sure as hell wont happen again. And I'm a firm believer that one day, some way, he'll get his due. No doubt. People like him usually do. To me personally, it's not worth the hassle to pursue it, not for 140.00. Maybe the guy needed milk for his kids? Maybe he needed a drink or two? Maybe he needed a tank of gas?? Of course I mean all that sarcastically! The jack a$$.....he'll get his. I just hope I hear about it. Badg A long time ago I read a 74 page thread on a four-wheel drive forum , where one little weasel ripped off a forum member for a few bucks. They rest of the forum tracked him down, forced him to pay up-leading to the word " Charlie Wenzeled" added to the urban dictionary. The original thread: D60 rear 4.88s 35 spline - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board D60 rear 4.88s 35 spline - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board (Locked at page 73.. but honestly worth the 2 or 3 hours read if you've ever sold anything online or been scammed yourself, or *are* a scammer yourself!) 'cliff notes' below: This is the story about Charlie Wenzel (aka 'cdubzon40s'), 19, from San Luis Obispo, California. He is a foul-mouthed little punk who thought he could hide behind the 'anonymity of the Internet' and get away with scamming people online. One day he decided to sell a set of gears for his 4x4 as "new" on a 4x4 forum he frequented, cashed the cheque he received for the goods (for the amount he'd asked in his ad), then complained to the buyer that he had been short-changed, edited his original 'for sale' price to reflect the new higher price, and refused to ship out the product until he received more money. When forum members told him to 'do the right thing' and send the gears for the agreed upon price, he mouthed off at them and proclaimed that he had done no wrong because he was a poor college student and that the gears were worth more anyhow. He just did not get it. His constant snarky attitude meant that other forum members were only too happy to help out the buyer, 'MochaMike', when the goods were not sent. Starting with an IP address and a home town, the manhunt was on. Little Charlie urged forum members to "come and get him" and said he wasn't scared. Before long, the dirt on 'cdubzon40s' was being uncovered - Charlie had a history of pissing people off on message boards, had a history of ripping people off (on [rfdlink=/forums/autolink/redirectpage.php?linkid=78]eBay[/rfdlink] where he had repeat "no item sent" complaints), and then to make matters worse it was discovered that the gear set he was selling as "new" had already been installed in his truck, so was in fact "used". Before long, his home address, cell phone #, daddy's email address & place of work, even his mommy's name were uncovered - all info found online. Charlie started to feel the pressure. But he continued to show an incredible amount of stupidity, and so despite MochaMike asking for his money back, the used gears were eventually shipped, and MochaMike said that he'd refuse the package when it arrived. Trying to get an apology and his money out of Charlie Wenzel was next to impossible, and it took the posting of photos of his girlfriend, his house, his truck (with license plate), and even yearbook photos, and possibly mention of Chris Marquis before he finally caved and sent the money. But once again, he had not followed directions and got a simple postal money order or certified cheque, he decided to use Western Union, meaning the saga would go on even longer while the entire online community, it seemed, waited for the money to clear. Eventually, the ordeal came to a conclusion - about a month and a half after it begun. Despite 'cdubzon40s' urging for everyone to "mind your own business, this is between me and MochaMike", he did not seem to realize that the entire world knew that if it had been handled quietly between the two that Charlie Wenzel would have put this little episode quietly behind him and continued to rip people off without a second thought. He made mistake after mistake and his attitude was so poor that he was practically begging to become the poster-child for online scam-artists. Whether or not he will change as a result of this incident, nobody knows. One thing is for sure though. The name 'Charlie Wenzel' will not be forgotten for a long time. In fact, in honour (/shame?) of his name, a site has been set up as a clearinghouse for online sellers, that will allow potential purchasers to search a seller's name/info and see if they come up on the site's black-list: Wenzeled The site's mantra: "Do the right thing. Don't get wenzeled." Whether the rip-off artist gets caught or not, there is such a thing as karma. It's not some mysterious, invisible gears of fate-it's real because: When someone rips another guy off-he has created a permanent change in his character, a defect, that will , whether he realizes it or not, will effect how he reacts to everything else that happens to him. By poisoning his own character, he has changed everything else that will happen to him-because each of us decide how to react to events, and thus can control them-the weasel unknowingly has restricted this ability . That's what will bite him in the ass-and why there really is such a thing as karma. I hope you get your purchase, or your money back. The guy that ripped you off ( if he did ) has lost a lot more than you have , though. #### badger ##### Well-Known Member Just my 2c, and I probably wouldn't have done this either, but it may have been smart to ask for the serial number on the plans and contact Zenith to verify them? Its funny how good hindsight can be.. Like I said, if it were me I would've gone "Cheap plans?!? CREDIT CARD!!!" in the heat of the moment. Funny bud....I did think about that very thing, but this guy.....just what he was saying and the way he was saying it, made me trust him. He's a **** good actor I bet, because I felt as safe as if I were sending the money to my mother. And true, the "cheap plans-credit card" was about the way it went! But you know, honestly......ever since I started flying back in 70, it became quite apparent to me that a fellow pilot was indeed a man you could trust, even if you didnt know him. A complete stranger, but if was a pilot, his word was good. And thats the way I viewed it. If you couldn't trust a fellow pilot, you were an outcast. All of them that I knew and worked with were ALL good people. Honest, straight shooters, just stand up guys, as was I. Or, as I still am, better put. And this guy gave meno reason to doubt his word. He sounded sincere, honest, etc., and I believed him. So, it's my bad, and I'm not looking to shift the blame anywhere. I screwed up, and I paid for it. But I still believe (and like to think) that he'll get his one day. And I can still look myself in the mirror every day and not be ashamed of who I see. I'm still a pilot, and MY word/promise is still rock solid, ESPECIALLY to a fellow pilot, and I can proudly say so. I do appreciate the concern, and yea......good old hind sight! Thanks! John #### badger ##### Well-Known Member I just read this thread and it pisses me off big time. I came from Ga to Ak and there and here, a man's word is where he lives. It is who he is and it destroys my faith in my fellow human being to hear this crap. Someone needs to sue him in small claims or somehow make that SOB pay. I'd offer suggestions but I'd get i trouble. After I read the ad I was interested in it also. Glad I finished reading it and now know to "trust but verify". Caveat Emptor huh? Bluedog, I know bud. Thats how I was raised my own self, and with a half breed Apache as a father, us boys listened our else! Rest assured though my friend, he'll get his. One day, he will! John #### Jman ##### Site Developer Runwayrat has been banned based on the contents of this thread. I'll leave the thread in place as a warning to others. Sorry for your luck John... #### badger ##### Well-Known Member Thanks Jake. Thats just my luck I guess! One thing for sure, it's no ones fault except my own. I should have been more careful. John #### Mac790 ##### Well-Known Member Yesterday, I was reading other forum and I came across a similar story, a guy lost 600 bucks in cash, 3 days in CA, and 1000$ in a overdraft check. He really wasn't happy with a project (Pitts S1-11 SS) quality for which he paid a refundable deposit, I'm not surprised check out these welds (pic 1)
Full story here The Biplane Forum: Warning xxxx Writes Bad Checks
But, he didn't give up, today I was looking at some advertisement on Barnstormers and I found this adverisement(pic2). I really like the way, he dealed with this crook, but I'm afraid it could cost him some troubles with authorities (in my country it will). The sentence under last pic is very meaningful. That's probably the best way to deal with this type of people.

Seb
btw. I've removed names and face, I don't want to cause troubles for HBA.

#### Attachments

• 63.6 KB Views: 2,754
• 17.5 KB Views: 355
• 46.4 KB Views: 2,187
Last edited:

#### Alan Waters

##### Well-Known Member
I'm curious about the welding picture. Is this a homebuilt and is this typical of homebuilt welding.

Yes, and, no....

#### Mac790

##### Well-Known Member
Is this a homebuilt
Yes, it suppose to be, like I wrote previously Pitts S1-11 SS, 300HP beast, more than 4000fpm climb rate, rated +/-9G or +9/-6G don't remember correctly.
is this typical of homebuilt welding.
Definitely not, I would say even more this type of weldings will kill you, check out this NTSB report, a guy paid the highest price for improper weldings. His plane literally shattered into pieces in the air.
NYC99FA097

Seb

#### rebelrabel

##### New Member
Hi there! Did you ever locate the guy and get your plans/money back? I live in LR and would love to track him down for you and get either/or back for you! My services are free, all that I would ask is that you perhaps be a little more careful next time ok?!