Yamaha Apex internal gear reduction.

[cblink.007]

Never trust an engineer who does not have grease under their fingernails.

Amen. Hence the reason I turned wrenches and mastered the drafting table before making the lateral moves to engineering and into the cockpit!

What's scary is that alot of my peers on the engineering side in flight test are completely incapable of understanding maintenance considerations, especially in the design process! I've been down here in Fort Worth the last few weeks on a team tasked with upgrading the design of our blade folding system, which is notorious in the V-22 community as being painstakingly difficult to assemble and rig! Likely because it was designed by people who did not consider maintainability in an austere environment. We'll get there.....eventually!

 

[Ally Wilke]

Amen. Hence the reason I turned wrenches and mastered the drafting table before making the lateral moves to engineering and into the cockpit!

What's scary is that alot of my peers on the engineering side in flight test are completely incapable of understanding maintenance considerations, especially in the design process! I've been down here in Fort Worth the last few weeks on a team tasked with upgrading the design of our blade folding system, which is notorious in the V-22 community as being painstakingly difficult to assemble and rig! Likely because it was designed by people who did not consider maintainability in an austere environment. We'll get there.....eventually!

My mom has a car that I really think you have to take the engine out to get to the sparklugs

 

[Ally Wilke]

Getting ahold of one of these apex engines can not come soon enough.I have been looking at images and documemts,but actual hands on measuring is going to be the way to go for me.Machining a whole new block is 5 grand.I am hopping there is enough on the face of the block for me to work with,but from paper it is not looking good.

 

[Marc W]

If you don't want the internal gear reduction, just take it out and drive directly off the end of the crankshaft. You will have to make your own gear housing but that is no big deal for you.

 

[Richard Schubert]

The more custom parts you have the higher the cost.

Most alternative engine programs are trying to leverage the production volume and field experience of a "consumer volume" powerplant to reduce costs and maintain a certain level of perceived or actual reliability and performance. At some point an existing engine will become more attractive, unless its being done for educational or entertainment purposes. [see Raptor]

You have to be honest with yourself and ruthless with requirements or any project can balloon out of control pretty easily.
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

 

[cblink.007]

Getting ahold of one of these apex engines can not come soon enough.I have been looking at images and documemts,but actual hands on measuring is going to be the way to go for me.Machining a whole new block is 5 grand.I am hopping there is enough on the face of the block for me to work with,but from paper it is not looking good.

Try www.snowmobiletrader.com if you haven't done so!

 

[Ally Wilke]

Try www.snowmobiletrader.com if you haven't done so!

Reply thx for the heads up.I have not tried that yet.I have a new Catahoula pup and I have been busy with the hog dog training.I always have to many irons in the fire lols.

 

[Ally Wilke]

Yu

The more custom parts you have the higher the cost.

Most alternative engine programs are trying to leverage the production volume and field experience of a "consumer volume" powerplant to reduce costs and maintain a certain level of perceived or actual reliability and performance. At some point an existing engine will become more attractive, unless its being done for educational or entertainment purposes. [see Raptor]

You have to be honest with yourself and ruthless with requirements or any project can balloon out of control pretty easily.
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

Yup.I have felt like I am banging my head against the wall,but I have more ideas that I want to try.

 

[Ally Wilke]

If you don't want the internal gear reduction, just take it out and drive directly off the end of the crankshaft. You will have to make your own gear housing but that is no big deal for you.

What I wanted to do was use the internal gear reduction because I can make gears to get the rpms right.The problem is the face of the engine will have to be redesigned also because there is not enough room for the larger gears.

 

[Ally Wilke]

Why has not anyone used the one out of the jetski version and put a gear reduction on it?That one does not have an internal hear drive.Already has some kind of torsional dampner on it too.

 

[Jason Crossley]

I believe the jet ski and boat versions have water coolant pass throughs to the water jacketed exhaust manifolds around the exhaust ports. Not an insurmountable issue to resolve, but does it really need solving if there is already a well designed, reasonably priced solution already available?

 

[keefer66]

Why has not anyone used the one out of the jetski version and put a gear reduction on it?That one does not have an internal hear drive.Already has some kind of torsional dampner on it too.

jetski engine uses jetpump pressure to feed the engine cooling system. has no internal coolant pump.

 

[Vigilant1]

Not an insurmountable issue to resolve, but does it really need solving if there is already a well designed, reasonably priced solution already available?

It would be convenient if a similar "base" engine for airplane conversions was mounted in both sleds and personal watercraft. On average, about the same number of new ones are sold every year in the US (approx 50-60k snowmobiles and 50-60k personal watercraft). So, there might be twice as many used engines. Also, a builder in Florida won't have a large selection of nearby wrecked snowmobiles.

 

[Yellowhammer]

My mom has a car that I really think you have to take the engine out to get to the sparklugs

Must be a Chevy Malibu?

If I could find the guy who designed that car I would seriously consider slapping him.

 

[Bill-Higdon]

Must be a Chevy Malibu?

If I could find the guy who designed that car I would seriously consider slapping him.

The late 70's Chevy Monza, Buick Skyhawk etc were that way

 

[Kiwi303]

So did a number of Japanese market FWD V6's. One bank has the plugs hard against the firewall...

Due to tax regulations they were getting sold off and scrapped in favour of buying new cars before the spark plugs wore out...

So why make it easy to change plugs if no-one will be doing it?

 

[Jason Crossley]

It would be convenient if a similar "base" engine for airplane conversions was mounted in both sleds and personal watercraft. On average, about the same number of new ones are sold every year in the US (approx 50-60k snowmobiles and 50-60k personal watercraft). So, there might be twice as many used engines. Also, a builder in Florida won't have a large selection of nearby wrecked snowmobiles.

Being in Florida, I would agree, especially since the engine family has two variants (175HP, and Supercharged 275HP) and has been relatively unchanged (mostly reliability updates) in it's rather long life. They are everywhere, in skis and in boats. The lack of an integrated water pump may be a deal breaker though, unless you could build it in to the redrive unit. I can think of numerous ways to handle this, maybe drive it off one of the idlers and size the centrifugal impeller appropriately. I'm pretty sure the exhaust port thing could be addressed, with some effort, but I just don't know if it is worth worrying about until we start to run low on available Apex engines. The newer versions (2018+) do come with a plastic intake, which should shave a few lbs. Another thing to consider is doing a ribbon delete, which is the integrated spark arrestor that is part of the manifold. That's the first thing everyone with one of these in a ski does.

 

[Ally Wilke]

After careful consideration.I need to make a block that the ordinary person who can afford a nice boat can afford an airplane that is safe and has decent performance numbers.The Yamaha engins will work and are reliable.To me they just are not where we as humans can fly.I want to go a total diffefent direction.I need to design a block that we can use off the shelf part to finish building.2600 rpms ish in prop range,1 to one hp ratio.100 hp. 5 grand total engin cost.I think this would cover perfomance need of most home builders.I probably should start a new thread.I am learning a lot from everyones input.I do not hold all the knowledge to accomplish this task.I will need help.I know it can be done.As alway i want your input.The good the bad and the not so pretty.I learn from as many sources as I can and then put it together.Without you and others this will never get accomplished.Love to you all.Been drinkin tonight

 

[Geraldc]

Been drinkin tonight

Me too but not enough for that mission.

 

[Victor Bravo]

The late 70's Chevy Monza, Buick Skyhawk etc were that way

My first car was a late 70's Buick Skyhawk. What a disappointment in the performance department....