Wouldn't a 3/4 Scale Magni Vale be great?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Tiger Tim, Oct 30, 2016.

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  1. Oct 30, 2016 #1

    Tiger Tim

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    Wouldn't this be lovely in about the same size as a Baby Ace?
    [​IMG]

    I can see it now: molded composite fuselage and fin, riveted tube wings and control surfaces like an Airdrome kit or maybe even just from wood, and a five cylinder Verner radial. It could probably be about as popular as the Flitzer but for a whole different group of builders.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when I daydream about airplanes.
     
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  2. Oct 30, 2016 #2

    Riggerrob

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    Pretty!

    May I vote for a Bulldog race plane? ...... Enclosed radial engine, gull-wings, etc.

    Can we teach our local CNC shop to hog-out a foam core/mood for the fuselage?
     
  3. Oct 30, 2016 #3

    TFF

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    It is way to pretty for plastic.
     
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  4. Oct 30, 2016 #4

    Autodidact

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    Yeah me too. I like your idea very very much! I think it would be just as easy to make a nice C or I section spar wing instead of tube spars, but I'm not against tube spars if they're buried inside and not at the leading edge.

    High quality plastic would be good though, but how would the cost compare if it were made from cold molded wood monocoque instead, about the same?
     
  5. Oct 30, 2016 #5

    TFF

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    Part of the beauty is the materials not just the shape. I would walk right by if it was composite.
     
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  6. Oct 30, 2016 #6

    Autodidact

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    You do have a point there.
     
  7. Oct 31, 2016 #7

    Tiger Tim

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    I think it's perfect for it. If you went with molded plywood I doubt more than one would ever see the light of day. Instead, just go with molded plywood's modern cousin, molded composite. Metal would break up the lines with panel joins and rivets and a stringered wood/tube fuselage would be close but not quite right. May as well embrace 'modern' stuff to get more airplanes in the air, no?
     
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  8. Oct 31, 2016 #8

    TFF

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    Plastic and classic designs are just wrong. I cant put a fiberglass cowl on a WW1 RC model in good conscience. The art of the design is gone. Pop out the mould is great for modern stuff. That poor Bugatti replica that crashed would have sent shutters if it was composite. Now if you come up with a new take on it, go for it, but its like that plastic Beech Staggerwing, why? You have to build moulds no matter what, why not go the right way. I bet it would not take one minute more start to finish of the project.
     
  9. Oct 31, 2016 #9

    cheapracer

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    Yes, Winna.

    A number of replica cars, boats, planes and other items exist today due to the ease of re-creating them with fiberglass, and thank goodness for that.
     
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  10. Oct 31, 2016 #10

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    It's one thing to make an old plane as a dead nuts replica and use composite as a substitute and another to take inspiration from a classic design with good lines but an outdated maerial or mfg method and use a modern, readily available alternative.

    Yes, compare mustangs made in glass to aluminum and no one tends to stop long for the former when the latter are gleaming. But when you're going to a scale model or somethung inspired, well, who says classic lines have to use classic methods?

    The bugatti in composite wouldn't meet the point of building it like the original but I would still have made a cool airplane. And a modern aor raft in carbon fiber with maybe some simplified power plant options but some heavily bugatti inspired lines would be super cool. Its just not being valued for the replica aspect.

    For this design you can do a scales replica and so at that point all consideration for original material method goes out the window in the name of whatever makes most sense for today. If you're doing a 1:1 replica of the original then yes you probably have to look at whether you're doing a faithful recreation or inventing new methods.

    As it is, looking at just the photo in the OP I would say that looks made for composites, and if it was made today, I'd how it would be done.
     
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  11. Oct 31, 2016 #11

    Victor Bravo

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    Go for the Duramold plywood method, and let me know how that tiny little concrete swimming pool in the back yard is workin' out for ya' :)
     
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  12. Oct 31, 2016 #12

    Cy V

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    Beautiful airplane! I had never heard of it before.
     
  13. Oct 31, 2016 #13

    Topaz

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    I agree. Make it so! :)
     
  14. Oct 31, 2016 #14

    Autodidact

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    Koi pond!
     
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  15. Oct 31, 2016 #15

    12notes

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    This is just pure pornography.

    As far as kit availability, my interest depends on the current market for kidneys.
     
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  16. Oct 31, 2016 #16

    revkev6

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    as much as I'm a fan of the planes I would have to throw out a big NO THANK YOU on any design inspired by the hall bulldog. the gull wings ended up interfering with the flow of air over the v-stab. Hall was constantly increasing the size of the V-stab because it was unstable. lets just throw out that his previous designs, the geebee Z among them required very little stabilizer. heck, the initial test flight of the R1 racer (not his design but the next geebee supersporters) had NO vertical stabilizer above the fuselage. the high mounted gull wing with a sharp turn to flat is what caused the unstable condition IMO. as a foot note the geebees were built about 5 miles as the crow flies and the halls were built about 2.5 miles from my house.
    here's a couple pics to illustrate:
     

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  17. Oct 31, 2016 #17

    Riggerrob

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    ...........................................................................................

    Thanks for for filling in our knowledge of stability problems with gull-wings. I did not realize how much turbulence (created by gulled wing roots) interfered with the vertical stabilizer. Your last photo of the Hall Bulldog looks so out-of-proportion that it is almost comical!
    Hah!
    Hah!
    Perhaps that is why gull-wings only survived WW2 on a handful of twin-engined flying boats (Beriev and Martin Marlin).
     
  18. Oct 31, 2016 #18

    Joe Fisher

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    That Magni Vale has a strait wing no gull wing.
     
  19. Oct 31, 2016 #19

    Victor Bravo

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    I will bet that the unstable condition was every bit as much caused by that huge pilot turtledeck fairing, which was almost as big as the vertical stabilizer. Visualize the separated, swirling, and disturbed flow coming off of the front edges of that fairing. The flow separation off of the upper wing roots certainly did not help of course. But other racing airplanes had dirty air off the wing roots and did not have the same amount of problem, so there is likely something else at play. There is also separation and/or strange flow coming off of the top of the cowling, in line with the fin.
     
  20. Oct 31, 2016 #20

    Topaz

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    Pretty fair bet that those two huge vertical (de)stabilizers reaching down to the ground had something to do with it, too. Much shorter on the Gee Bee. In both cases, the huge prop is destabilizing as well - yes, in yaw as well as in pitch.

    The added vertical area created by the downward-reaching "gull" portion of the wing just made it that much worse.
     

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