Would planes be better if they were more like birds?

[Rhino]

Would planes be better if they were more like birds?

My hangar floor is already dirty enough, so no thanks.

 

[henryk]

no thanks.

=BAT wings are much more HUMAN one !

 

[Boscovius]

Love this thread. I've been doing a lot of brainstorming regarding the E-AB amphibian I'm designing. I took a huge leap of faith and decided to go with wing extensions that extend like a bird wing, but are covered with carbon fiber "feathers", that all nest into each other like a real bird wing. What a relief it is to know I'm not the only one thinking this far out of the box. Stupid Question:

 

[WINGITIS]

I've been busy working on other things lately, but thought about Owlet again today. I thought it a shame that I wasn't doing anything with it, and recalled that someone had at one point expressed an interest in an stl for it. Why not? Maybe someone else can find something interesting to do with this.

Many thanks

Cheers
Kevin

 

[jedi]

For those interested in flapping wing propulsion I suggest boatdesign.net ; Propulsion : Pod drive ;
Fin Drive and Stabilization

Boat Design Net

Kjell and swashplate appear to be doing some good work.

 

[jedi]

I ran across this old link to more photos of birds flying thru bobbles. Interesting to notice the non symmetric aspect and the spanwise vortex center location.

Stunning video shows how owls fly by creating swirling vortices of air

A new study from the Royal Veterinary College outside London has captured the mechanics of how birds fly, by creating small vortices or rotating air with their wing flaps and tail movements.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[henryk]

birds flying

-but very economical=1 kg bird can fly continously 10000 km on the 0.5 kg fat,
NO water !

One moment, please...

 

[DennisK]

For anyone interested, I've finally cracked the problem of stringing feathers such that they can spread and fold smoothly while also being load-bearing. As suspected back in post #99, I was doing something dumb. Notice that the feathers near the wrist now attach higher up on the bones, rather than down in the joint. This allows the secondaries to lay much more nicely over the primaries, without any of them getting dragged underneath like before. I've also eliminated the metal attachment loops, saving some weight and work. Everything is done with threads passing through holes in the bones and feathers.

The next trick was to shift the secondary hold-down lines over by one feather compared to what I've tried in the past and jammed up when folding. S1's hold-down line attaches to the bone at S2's hole, S2's hold-down attaches to S3's hole, and so on. This way the feathers are pulled farther down as the wing is extended, and relaxed as it folds so the secondaries can slide up over the primaries. The motion is so natural, I suspect the ligaments on real wings are arranged similarly. I could probably see it if I pick apart another real wing, now that I know what to look for. The answers are all there if you just have the eyes to see

The feathers near the elbow still stick up a little bit, and I'm pretty sure that's due to the shape of the bone itself rather than the stringing. I'm making some modifications to the 3D model to curve it down further at the elbow. I also need to do another round of feather fabrication for the underside coverts and the alula feathers. Or perhaps retire this wing and make a full feather set for a different species. Canada goose may be a good model for human flight, but was a terrible choice for R&D due to the ridiculous number of secondary feathers

 

[Boscovius]

For anyone interested, I've finally cracked the problem of stringing feathers such that they can spread and fold smoothly while also being load-bearing. As suspected back in post #99, I was doing something dumb. Notice that the feathers near the wrist now attach higher up on the bones, rather than down in the joint. This allows the secondaries to lay much more nicely over the primaries, without any of them getting dragged underneath like before. I've also eliminated the metal attachment loops, saving some weight and work. Everything is done with threads passing through holes in the bones and feathers.

The next trick was to shift the secondary hold-down lines over by one feather compared to what I've tried in the past and jammed up when folding. S1's hold-down line attaches to the bone at S2's hole, S2's hold-down attaches to S3's hole, and so on. This way the feathers are pulled farther down as the wing is extended, and relaxed as it folds so the secondaries can slide up over the primaries. The motion is so natural, I suspect the ligaments on real wings are arranged similarly. I could probably see it if I pick apart another real wing, now that I know what to look for. The answers are all there if you just have the eyes to see

The feathers near the elbow still stick up a little bit, and I'm pretty sure that's due to the shape of the bone itself rather than the stringing. I'm making some modifications to the 3D model to curve it down further at the elbow. I also need to do another round of feather fabrication for the underside coverts and the alula feathers. Or perhaps retire this wing and make a full feather set for a different species. Canada goose may be a good model for human flight, but was a terrible choice for R&D due to the ridiculous number of secondary feathers

That is some really exciting stuff and exactly why I am following this thread. I intend to put a couple of wings like that on my aquatic pondhopper.

 

[Boscovius]

how does a bird wing unfold at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Sraight'nlevel]

I like to test this feature.

 

[henryk]

to test this feature.

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[Sraight'nlevel]

Isn't all flying inspired by the bird flying ?

What I think is the coolest is to make it so aeroplane like you no longer see it is a bird imitation !

 

[philr]

I don't have a background in electronics to build this but here is my idea for orthopter power. Most if not all of the models I see flying are converting circular motion through a motor to linear motion. My observation of a bird or bat's wing stroke is that the downward movement is a constant acceleration with a sudden reversal at the bottom. When converting circular movement to linear there is a deceleration once half of the stroke is completed the wing is slowing down. I think one could use a cylinoid on each wing and even control banking by varying the current to each cylinoid as you see a bird do in flight. I am not talking about man carrying flight but bird sized.

 

[philr]

I don't have a background in electronics to build this but here is my idea for orthopter power. Most if not all of the models I see flying are converting circular motion through a motor to linear motion. My observation of a bird or bat's wing stroke is that the downward movement is a constant acceleration with a sudden reversal at the bottom. When converting circular movement to linear there is a deceleration once half of the stroke is completed the wing is slowing down. I think one could use a cylinoid on each wing and even control banking by varying the current to each cylinoid as you see a bird do in flight. I am not talking about man carrying flight but bird sized.

I mean "solenoid"

 

[philr]

Here is an interesting link to a video of James Fitzpatrick explaining his wing system.James Fitzpatrick explains what his Ornithopter flying invention is...

 

[Sraight'nlevel]

I personally don't see the flapping wings as a solution for a man powered flight...but we are still far behind of a regular bald eagle soaring etc.

I think the tail is now closer to a bird in Lazair and TB-2...and lifting fuselage is getting closer to bird body/torso.

 

[henryk]

flapping wings as a solution for a man powered flight.

-today real possibility=

 

[Toobuilder]

Voyager carried 10x empty weight payload and flew around the world non stop. No feathers, no flapping wings.

 

[Sraight'nlevel]

Voyager carried 10x empty weight payload and flew around the world non stop. No feathers, no flapping wings.

4 times more ?