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Wittman Tailwind modified to meet E-LSA?

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Mcmark

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I will make somebody a heck of a deal on a Nesmith Cougar project if you want to try for LSA, but you'll have to use a different wing like the Daphne.
Have documentation, but the registration has expired.
 

Doran Jaffas

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I know the Wittman Buttercup design can meet the ELSA specs, but was wondering if anyone has ever installed longer wings on a W8 or W-10 Tailwind using a thicker, flat bottomed airfoil (like a J-3Cub)? This wing change would probably require wing struts like a Cub as well. I'm not talking about trying to install or adapt J-3 Cub wings onto an existing Tailwind, but rather to redesign a Tailwind wing to be longer and use a Cub-like airfoil.

I know some Tailwind enthusiasts are probably thinking, "Why would you do that? The Tailwind was designed for speed!" I just think it is one of the best looking high wing monoplanes you can build, but would prefer to fly something a little slower and in the LSA range.
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I know the Wittman Buttercup design can meet the ELSA specs, but was wondering if anyone has ever installed longer wings on a W8 or W-10 Tailwind using a thicker, flat bottomed airfoil (like a J-3Cub)? This wing change would probably require wing struts like a Cub as well. I'm not talking about trying to install or adapt J-3 Cub wings onto an existing Tailwind, but rather to redesign a Tailwind wing to be longer and use a Cub-like airfoil.

I know some Tailwind enthusiasts are probably thinking, "Why would you do that? The Tailwind was designed for speed!" I just think it is one of the best looking high wing monoplanes you can build, but would prefer to fly something a little slower and in the LSA range.
Check out the Tailwind forum archives.
Use the plans. Build a lookalike out of lighter materials. Smaller, lighter power plant. Test it C A R E F U L L Y and just don't even come close to calling it a Tailwind anything.
 

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Pops

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Make the JMR Special with a tailwheel and lower the cabin 2" and its what you are talking about. 680 lbs EW and 1100 GW. Tall cabin for a large pilot.
 

stanislavz

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Test it C A R E F U L L Y and just don't even come close to calling it a Tailwind anything.
No-one called any Tailwind derivative as Tailwind. But it is always fine to know. That Wittman design have so many followers. And then he was still with us - he helped to copy-paste his best solutions.
 

stanislavz

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If I understand this correctly what you want is a better looking Buttercup or just a Buttercup that looks kinda like a Tailwind?
It does not matter, you will have to cope with lower wing loading anyway, and this will make current Tailwind constructio (ie - rigid skin wing) non-optimal for new mission.
 

Little Scrapper

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It does not matter, you will have to cope with lower wing loading anyway, and this will make current Tailwind constructio (ie - rigid skin wing) non-optimal for new mission.
I don’t understand your post. You can easily take a Buttercup and reshape it to look more like a Tailwind. People have already done this. Strutless look? Yeah that’s different. At that point you’re building a original one of a kind airplane and it’s nothing Wittman related.

But to have a general look a feel of a Tailwind? Absolutely. A sleek Buttercup is not a issue at all.
 

stanislavz

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I don’t understand your post.
I tried to put Tailwind W8 with W10 wing into our ul category, by leaving its geometry - size, but making it much lighter (rotax engine, minimum instruments, lighter tube gauges) for proper stall speed.

But - it would have bigger tail surfaces, or longer tail tool.
 

pictsidhe

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I don’t understand your post. You can easily take a Buttercup and reshape it to look more like a Tailwind. People have already done this. Strutless look? Yeah that’s different. At that point you’re building a original one of a kind airplane and it’s nothing Wittman related.

But to have a general look a feel of a Tailwind? Absolutely. A sleek Buttercup is not a issue at all.
The really big question is; would it be a Butterwind, or a Tailcup?
 

pictsidhe

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What’s wrong with a Buttercup, no leading edge treatment, tighten up that fuselage a little to look Tailwind-ish and put a sleek cowling on it! Keep it light and minimal and it would be awesome!
That would have a higher stall. Might need a bigger tail, too. The moment from the Buttercups front and rear flaps cancel each other out. I'd just reshape the fuselage and maybe cowl. I doubt it is much different from Tailwind construction.
 

Little Scrapper

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That would have a higher stall. Might need a bigger tail, too. The moment from the Buttercups front and rear flaps cancel each other out. I'd just reshape the fuselage and maybe cowl. I doubt it is much different from Tailwind construction.
Very little difference, people have done this and are still doing this with not much difference in stall. Still LSA
 

Mcmark

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There is a gent in N MI or MN, one o them COLD places building in his words a Buttwind. Doing beautiful work. Looks like the TW but is built as a BC. Covering and paint so he’s almost there.
 

stanislavz

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A Buttwind/Tailwup with a Rotax would be interesting.
Yes, but if you use same structure it will be overbuilt one. And carrying extra weight. And weight is the enemy © Billski.

Could other list Tailwind inspired other airplanes ? Mine list is as follow:

Nesmith Cougar
Szaraz SDS-1A Daphne
Hanson Woodwind
Scott Ol' Ironsides
Four runner CF-4
 
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